Thread: Animosity Towards Publishers and Editors?

Originally Posted by Robert Donnell

As for wheather I am serious or not, can you think out of the box? I can.

There's a difference between thinking out of the box and not even being in the same room with it. Every book, regardless of how one publishes, should be edited at the minimum for grammar and spelling, formatted (which you said was so easy) so that spacing is uniform and the table of contents is at least in order, that numbers are written out or at least consistent... Writing is communicating. If readers have to sweat through mistake after mistake just to get to the words, communication is effectively lost. Lost communication = Fail.

Originally Posted by Robert Donnell

Obviously a self published work is not edited at all, therein lies the charm, it is a pure work of art not corrupted by corporate homogenized editing.

Well, here's my two cents on this little tidbit:

If you're not willing to put forth the time and effort required to make your book as free of flaws as you can make it, why should any reader put forth the time and effort it's going to take to read it? This is the kind of cocky, elitist writing attitude that separates the hopefuls from the professionals. And having perused a few pages of your novel, I'm going to second what Baron said. I'd strongly suggest posting in the workshop and receiving constructive, helpful criticism that will allow you not only to better your craft but to stand out among your peers in the self-publishing world. Not to mention sell more books.

Originally Posted by Robert Donnell

To use a example from Hollywood a lot of the very best stuff in most movies ends up on the cutting room floor. I strongly suspect the same happens with book editing.

In most movies? Hmm.. I'm not sure if that is true at all.

Most movies have a "deleted scenes" feature in the home DVD's and I always watch them. Often they are cut with good reason, and after seeing the theatrical version you can see why they were cut.

There are, of course, times where a deleted scene is exceptional, though simply didn't fit well with the narrative or whatever other reason. But, at least from my viewing experience, those are rare exceptions.

When I watch the extended director's cut of some films, they often seem amateurish. The scenes linger on after the emotional impact has peaked, the dialogue is extraneous, random side-roads are explored at leisure.

Pick up the Director's Cut of the film "Troy" and you'll see what I mean.

Sometimes you have to cut your "darlings", your well-written scenes that don't play well with others, as your novel is a sum of it's parts. Sometimes benching a star offensive player is necessary when you need your best defensive players on the court.

Banned, eh?

Boy, that escalated quickly.

Moderation isn't discussed in public. There's nothing else to say on that subject, so let's get back on topic.

I checked out the book written by the OP as well and I see what others are talking about. Something that crossed my mind was the possibility that he wrote two chapters of the same number on purpose? It could possibly be a style thing, you know, two chapter seventeens that take place during the same time period from the perspectives of two different characters, something like that? I was going to ask if this was done for such reasons but he's banned now so I guess I cannot.

I agree with all the perspectives here (I edit myself into the ground even on my FIRST drafts) but also feel it is a person's right to write however they choose and attempt to sell it however they choose as well. Wishing the OP luck with his book.

Originally Posted by starseed

I checked out the book written by the OP as well and I see what others are talking about. Something that crossed my mind was the possibility that he wrote two chapters of the same number on purpose? It could possibly be a style thing, you know, two chapter seventeens that take place during the same time period from the perspectives of two different characters, something like that? I was going to ask if this was done for such reasons but he's banned now so I guess I cannot.

I agree with all the perspectives here (I edit myself into the ground even on my FIRST drafts) but also feel it is a person's right to write however they choose and attempt to sell it however they choose as well. Wishing the OP luck with his book.

It is his right to publish how he pleases but the reality is that books such as this create an image of self publsihing which damages those who take the time to produce a quality work.

The thing about style (for me anyway) is that it needs to appear deliberate/consistent, and not, as this did, as carelessness. I started reading the sample, and frankly I was intrigued by the storyline - but the lack of proper punctuation and wandering in the narrative made it difficult to read. And frankly, the storyline didn't intrigue me enough to try and ignore those problems. Someone who is a good storyteller can be forgiven a few errors such as this, but not constant ones. It's really too bad that more attention wasn't paid to the writing, and less to the "I'm an artiste - the hell with standards!". And, as Baron stated, this is the kind of thing that reflects poorly on all self-publishers and why that darn stigma stubbornly remains.

It does happen with traditionally published works as well, but it's like you said, often times it is deliberate. For example "Rule of the Bone" (by Russel Banks). He uses a lot of run on sentences and bad punctuation and doesn't use quotation marks for any of the dialogue. In the beginning of the novel it annoyed me and I almost gave up but as I went on I started to see that he wrote this way because the story is first person from the perspective of a fifteen year old runaway, and the way it was written really does make you feel like you are in the head of the kid. I'm not sure if he styled it this way for this purpose but I would assume so. I got used to the voice and this ended up being one of my favorite novels.

You can tell when someone has spent a great deal of time on their novel and put a lot of thought into it, no matter what the style.

Originally Posted by starseed

You can tell when someone has spent a great deal of time on their novel and put a lot of thought into it, no matter what the style.

True. And in this case, it was apparent that not enough time and thought had been put into it. Which is really too bad, because, as I said, the storyline had promise.