Thread: African American readers?

Just curious, does anyone else target the African American readers or audience?

Now I am curious, I wonder how they differ as a reader group? Are there sub groups of age or sex you target within the larger group? I genuinely believe that the black people in England who have grown up here have similar tastes to their white peers, it may not be true of first generation immigrants, but there can't be many of them in the African American population.

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle

Now I am curious, I wonder how they differ as a reader group? Are there sub groups of age or sex you target within the larger group? I genuinely believe that the black people in England who have grown up here have similar tastes to their white peers, it may not be true of first generation immigrants, but there can't be many of them in the African American population.

Go to a major library. Browse the story collection section. Report what you find. At my library you would find many anthologies of black writers. Same thing is true in the essay collection section(s.) Interested to hear if U. K. differs. In the U. S. I would say a tradition of black literature definitely exists. 'Black' themes definitely exist. Black marketing spins definitely exist in genre writing. Trying to judge similar tastes might be a fool's errand, there is wide diversity in any literature.

There is a huge hunger for black literature in America. The brutality that the slaves endured and the prejudice that was rampant and "in your face" until really very recently makes for strong feelings. I participate in a black literature forum and the feelings run deep, the past is hard to forget but an undeniable part of their history. I wonder how I would have coped if I had been born black instead of brown in southeast Texas in 1955. I was the only and darkest face in my class and was ostracized, so I can relate to the feeling. But, back on track, there is a very strong and growing population of African Americans who want something to read that they can relate to.

I visited a few local "Borders" book stores when they were closing down, and I noticed they each had a Black Literature (or "Ebony Literature" as it was titled) section.

I haven't read much of it myself so I can't say, but when I think of authors who tackle the heavy issues of the african american identity, and their historical roots, I immediately think of Toni Morrison.

I may be completely out of touch, but I am unaware of a separate literature in this country. There was "Brick lane" which is placed in a well known Indian area of London, and my friend Andy wrote a book called "Shalom, Salamm", which is about a mixed marriage, but these books have a wider appeal. Maybe there simply is not a big enough audience to support a separate literature in our tiny country, or perhaps the different circumstance of racial diversity had an effect. Most British slaves were held in colonies and possessions, and used in sugar production, which had a massive death rate compared to tobacco production, so new slaves were continuously imported and a cultural tradition was not established. Racial diversity only started happening here (Outside a few small areas like Liverpool) in the 1950's-60's. I shall ask around among my non-white friends, most definitely curious now.

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle

I may be completely out of touch, but I am unaware of a separate literature in this country. There was "Brick lane" which is placed in a well known Indian area of London, and my friend Andy wrote a book called "Shalom, Salamm", which is about a mixed marriage, but these books have a wider appeal. Maybe there simply is not a big enough audience to support a separate literature in our tiny country, or perhaps the different circumstance of racial diversity had an effect. Most British slaves were held in colonies and possessions, and used in sugar production, which had a massive death rate compared to tobacco production, so new slaves were continuously imported and a cultural tradition was not established. Racial diversity only started happening here (Outside a few small areas like Liverpool) in the 1950's-60's. I shall ask around among my non-white friends, most definitely curious now.

The British also abolished slavery in the 18th century, Olly, so there's been a little longer to adjust.

Originally Posted by Baron

The British also abolished slavery in the 18th century, Olly, so there's been a little longer to adjust.

Parliment's threat of abolition (which never came to pass before the insurrection, or for long after) was an important factor in bringing the southern colonies to declare independence.

After 1772 it was possible for a slave physically in the UK and owned by a British citizen to be freed by trial. Many British citizens held slaves in empire territory but not many ever did in the UK.

In 1807 trading slaves between empire states and from Africa became illegal. (Same year as U. S. as far as the importation into the country from abroad.)

In 1833 slavery became illegal throughout the empire.

There's been a little longer for populations living in the UK to adjust, and obviously much less to adjust from for those actually on the sacred soil of the sceptured isle but, where it was profitable, legal slavery existed under British political jurisdiction well into the nineteenth century and I bet many of those places have a black literature to prove it.

However, notwithstanding that absentee landlordship, there is little question that the U. S. is ground zero for continuing social and political effects arising from race slavery. It would not surprise me if my society is plagued by it to the end of its days.

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle

Now I am curious, I wonder how they differ as a reader group? Are there sub groups of age or sex you target within the larger group? I genuinely believe that the black people in England who have grown up here have similar tastes to their white peers, it may not be true of first generation immigrants, but there can't be many of them in the African American population.

?!!!

In parts of London, Brixton and Tottenham for instance, they speak a patois almost unintelligible to most Londoners; in Tower Hamlets there are posters on the walls promising death to the infidels, so I doubt they're reading Jane Austen, Terry Prachet or even V S Naipaul; certainly not The Wide Sargasso Sea! - It is this that makes London such a vibrant place to live, in parts of the city English is a second language - On the underground on Friday I had a disagreement with an American woman, a long conversation with a Norwegian girl who hand-knitted clothing and sold it in Piccadilly and Camden markets and was asked for directions by a man from Singapore; it is this constant change which keeps the hub of the country moving forward; but it doesn't mean that we all have the same taste. Last year I was walking down North Finchley High Street behind three girls jabbering away in Russian, in the middle of a long sentence in cyrilic, Vicky Pollard popped into the conversation, both incongruous and illuminating as to how visitors adapt and what catches their attention.

I doubt that there's uniformity of reading matter across East Sussex, let alone the whole of the UK, so why expect it across ethnic, cultural and religious boundries?

I certainly didn't expect uniformity Bloggsworth, I said "as their white peers". I would expect both black and white labourers to read the Sun or Mirror though. Ethnic to me means 'originating in that place', there is no ethnic boundary between the children of immigrants and people whose parents were born here. An awful lot of the cultural background will be shared, they went to the same schools and watch the same television, there is some original input from their parents, but in my experience it tends to be in addition to rather than instead of English cultural habits, my friends would feed me salt fish and yams, but they also ate Lancashire hotpot and played rugby in their youth. I don't expect uniformity of reading habits, but neither do I expect differentiation to be be based on race or colour, rather on taste and age group. Like I said I shall ask some questions, promise to report back .

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle

I may be completely out of touch, but I am unaware of a separate literature in this country. There was "Brick lane" which is placed in a well known Indian area of London, and my friend Andy wrote a book called "Shalom, Salamm", which is about a mixed marriage, but these books have a wider appeal. Maybe there simply is not a big enough audience to support a separate literature in our tiny country, or perhaps the different circumstance of racial diversity had an effect. Most British slaves were held in colonies and possessions, and used in sugar production, which had a massive death rate compared to tobacco production, so new slaves were continuously imported and a cultural tradition was not established. Racial diversity only started happening here (Outside a few small areas like Liverpool) in the 1950's-60's. I shall ask around among my non-white friends, most definitely curious now.

there are black writing sections at waterstones bookstores in more multi-ethnic cities, like birmingham and london, i believe.

anyway, i don't much like what i've read of authors 'targeting' ethnic markets. i'm pretty 'whatever' about it because i'm white and as such their existence is pretty irrelevant to me. but i like to think even if i was black i wouldn't go near those sections of bookstores. why not? well, because i don't like thinking of people in groups (i actually consider that quite racist, regardless of the good intentions behind it). also i don't think that in 21st century america with a black president, we should be in the business of encouraging the kind of patronizing, post-colonialist, affirmative-action crap that so often is counter-productive and divisive.

also, and call me cynical, but i think such 'genres' can actually be pretty bad for fiction in general. they manipulate publishing houses into diverting precious resources into markets that are baseless and artificial (what racist crap goes into deciding what makes an AFRICAN-AMERICAN book anyway? does it have to be set in the ghetto? does it have to star lil'kim? does everyone eat fried chicken? give me a break, its such a fundamentally racist concept), thereby encouraging negative stereotypes and giving less-talented writers preference on the basis of their subject matter. write a good book about slavery and i'll buy it. write a mediocre book and i won't, no matter how you market it.

Originally Posted by luckyscars

there are black writing sections at waterstones bookstores in more multi-ethnic cities, like birmingham and london, i believe.

anyway, i don't much like what i've read of authors 'targeting' ethnic markets. i'm pretty 'whatever' about it because i'm white and as such their existence is pretty irrelevant to me. but i like to think even if i was black i wouldn't go near those sections of bookstores. why not? well, because i don't like thinking of people in groups (i actually consider that quite racist, regardless of the good intentions behind it). also i don't think that in 21st century america with a black president, we should be in the business of encouraging the kind of patronizing, post-colonialist, affirmative-action crap that so often is counter-productive and divisive.

also, and call me cynical, but i think such 'genres' can actually be pretty bad for fiction in general. they manipulate publishing houses into diverting precious resources into markets that are baseless and artificial (what racist crap goes into deciding what makes an AFRICAN-AMERICAN book anyway? does it have to be set in the ghetto? does it have to star lil'kim? does everyone eat fried chicken? give me a break, its such a fundamentally racist concept), thereby encouraging negative stereotypes and giving less-talented writers preference on the basis of their subject matter. write a good book about slavery and i'll buy it. write a mediocre book and i won't, no matter how you market it.

Wow, are you always this judgmental?

i'm pretty 'whatever' about it because i'm white and as such their existence is pretty irrelevant to me.

​Really? Irrelevant?

(i actually consider that quite racist, regardless of the good intentions behind it)

Racist? Is targeting the young audience with an endless parade of vampires not the same thing? You write what a certain group of people may want to read. Romance appeals mainly to women, technical writing appeals more to men. History buffs will seek out relevant parts of our past, divers like reading about diving, it is just another genre.

Why is it racist if a black person wants to read about their particular history and contribution and sufferings through it? Why is it racist for a Hispanic to write about it? I never intended to target the black population, it just so happened that my past and my particular story led my book to include a lot of black characters.

what racist crap goes into deciding what makes an AFRICAN-AMERICAN book anyway? does it have to be set in the ghetto? does it have to star lil'kim? does everyone eat fried chicken? give me a break, its such a fundamentally racist concept

Again, are you always this judgmental? No, actually it is set in the Yucatan in 1614 where the slaves were being badly abused.

They eat a lot of seafood, but actually I'm surprised that you didn't include watermelon in their diet.

The main character frees slaves by killing their masters to avenge the murder of his father. What begins as a revenge story grows into a movement to free all of the slaves, and they do it. Pretty racist of me, huh? You really should make inquiries into what a person is saying before you go throwing names and accusations out. Often, the one who screams "racist" is actually insecure about their own true feelings about race, or find another race irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Ditch

Racist? Is targeting the young audience with an endless parade of vampires not the same thing? You write what a certain group of people may want to read. Romance appeals mainly to women, technical writing appeals more to men. History buffs will seek out relevant parts of our past, divers like reading about diving, it is just another genre.

nope, because none of those other audiences are defined by race. a 'black person' is not the same as a 'diver'. divers are all united by a specific common interests and passion...diving. is the suggestion that black people have specific common interests? that really sounds quite racist to me. like i say, i give it a pass because it doesn't infringe upon my existence, largely because i am white, but i know if i was black i'd probably find it pretty patronizing.

Why is it racist if a black person wants to read about their particular history and contribution and sufferings through it? Why is it racist for a Hispanic to write about it? I never intended to target the black population, it just so happened that my past and my particular story led my book to include a lot of black characters.

it isn't and i never said it was. what i object to is the label. as far as i'm concerned, black history is human history. sure, some black people may well take more of an interest in certain aspects that they feel speak to them and their history, but 'black' is not in itself a valid culture, an interest or a 'group'. sorry but it isn't. again, its the label i object to. it has a sinister jim-crow-esque flavor to it that i don't find palatable, and i'd feel the same way about a 'white fiction' label to. these distinctions, whether or not they exist in actuality, we should be working to free ourselves from, not propagate.

it is set in the Yucatan in 1614 where the slaves were being badly abused.

They eat a lot of seafood, but actually I'm surprised that you didn't include watermelon in their diet.

The main character frees slaves by killing their masters to avenge the murder of his father. What begins as a revenge story grows into a movement to free all of the slaves, and they do it. Pretty racist of me, huh? You really should make inquiries into what a person is saying before you go throwing names and accusations out. Often, the one who screams "racist" is actually insecure about their own true feelings about race, or find another race irrelevant.

please believe me when i say that story sounds extremely interesting and i (a white person) would probably enjoy it. i'd certainly enjoy it a whole lot more than i would a book on diving, a book on romance or a book on 'technical writing' (which, according to your thinking, i should enjoy a lot more as a man). so what does that tell you? it tells you there's no real need to label it as 'african american fiction'. it isn't african american fiction anymore than william shakespeare is 'white-anglo-saxon-protestant fiction'. and i didn't call you racist. when did i ever accuse anybody of racism? please find one quote in which i said anything mildly racist. what i said is that i find the idea of an institution that distinguishes between 'white' and 'black' literature racist. because, well, it IS and by every definition possible. this isn't 'screaming racist' - like i said, i actually give it a pass because on the whole it doesn't bother me. but don't delude yourself into thinking just because people like me don't, for one reason or another, feel comfortable objecting to it publicly that it isn't, at best, an unnecessary and, at worst, an unhealthy label.

the great thing about writing is, above virtually all other art forms, it is transcendent of race. you can write a great book about the injustices of slavery and segregation ('to kill a mockingbird', anyone?) without the need to pigeonhole. there are some great books written by and about black people. there's no need to 'target' certain demographics because if a book is good enough members of the groups it speaks to will find it through mutual interest, not because you or anyone else made some phony attempt to market it a certain way. the real question is, why do you WANT to target african americans with your book? one of my stories involves a paraplegic. another involves a pedophile. a couple involve people addicted to heroin. by your rational, all groups are valid, so why don't we go all the way and create 'paraplegic-fiction', 'pedophile fiction' and 'smackhead fiction' too? at least, in the latter two cases, there's some basis for common interest there. most black folks i know couldn't care less about slavery. i'm white and i'd like to read your book. what does that tell you?

is the suggestion that black people have specific common interests?

Many do, believe it or not.

that really sounds quite racist to me.

I thought you said you didn't call me a racist?

but 'black' is not in itself a valid culture, an interest or a 'group'. sorry but it isn't.

Yes, it is a culture all to it's own. As I said earlier, there is a vast group of African Americans who want to read something they can relate to. I don't know why this bothers you so much to try to turn it into a debate. It is a simple fact that the blacks who were captured and brought into slavery did in fact have a rich culture and their own set of beliefs.

there's no need to 'target' certain demographics because if a book is good enough members of the groups it speaks to will find it through mutual interest, not because you or anyone else made some phony attempt to market it a certain way. the real question is, why do you WANT to target african americans with your book?

Obviously you are on such a tirade that you didn't read my last response, I won't repeat it again.

Originally Posted by Ditch

is the suggestion that black people have specific common interests?

Many do, believe it or not.

name one. aside from slavery, which ended almost one hundred a fifty years ago and which i guarantee you'll be hard pressed to find a single black man or woman outside of a history classroom. who considers it an interest of theirs.

I thought you said you didn't call me a racist?

i didn't there's a difference between saying something sounds racist and calling someone a racist.

Yes, it is a culture all to it's own. As I said earlier, there is a vast group of African Americans who want to read something they can relate to. I don't know why this bothers you so much to try to turn it into a debate. It is a simple fact that the blacks who were captured and brought into slavery did in fact have a rich culture and their own set of beliefs.

ALL people want to read something they can relate to. like i said before, the difference between a group based on race and a group based on an interest is that the former is open to stereotypes and assumptions that rarely hold true. it doesn't bother me a whole lot. it just irks me that you'd start a thread on a genre that is, once again, by definition racist (again, not calling you racist, but the genre you're discussing is. by definition.) and then not want to hear any negative feedback about it. perhaps the blacks who were captured and brought into slavery had a rich culture and set of beliefs, but again that had nothing to do with them being black. it was because they were from AFRICA. are you targeting african readers? no. you're targeting american readers who happen to be black. you explain to me why an african-american teenager in 21st america has an innate attachment to the culture of an 18th century slave in colonial virginia, aside from skin color, a vague bloodline and the name 'african american', and i'll agree with you. otherwise its nonsense. the history of slavery is now human history. not african american history.