Thread: The Daunting Comma Placement

Greetings! New to the forum.

I'm fairly proficient at writing, but comma placement continues to be a daunting task. Here are two situations:

First, the original sentence:

No one was in a hurry, for the plaza was long and the terrain was a bit steep.

This is okay, but it sounds better if you eliminate the second "was".

No one was in a hurry, for the plaza was long and the terrain a bit steep.

Here's the question: Should there be a comma after "terrain"?

Second Situation:

The vendor booths were staggered throughout, accented by a smattering of trees and plantings, park benches and one small fountain.

There seems to be resistance to using the first "and". I like it. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance for your help.

There shouldn't be a comma in the first case because there's no pause in the first case (at least not when I read it in my head). As for the second case, there's resistance to that "and" because it causes confusion. I first read it as two parts: "smattering of trees", "plantings, park benches, and one small fountain." I later read it as three parts: "smattering of trees and plantings", "park benches", "one small fountain." I expect you meant the second interpretation, but there's enough ambiguity that it could be a minor problem.

"The vendor booths were staggered throughout, accented by a smattering of trees and plantings, park benches and one small fountain. "

I would just get rid of "and plantings". It is too general. Plantings of what?

But if you want to keep it I think the comma is fine where it is.

"No one was in a hurry, for the plaza was long and the terrain was a bit steep. "

I think you could ditch the "for" and say "No one was in a hurry - the plaza was long and the terrain a bit steep."

Good comments. You're right about the plantings. The only change I'm encouraged to make so far is to add "ornamental".

I agree with Gamer and Rob, however I disagree with getting rid of "plantings". It's meant to be general, to cover anything that's planted, yet not a tree.

No comma after 'terrain', and I liked the repetition of 'and' in the other example. The sound and rhythm is pleasing.

Written the other way

The vendor booths were staggered throughout, accented by a smattering of trees, plantings, park benches(,) and one small fountain.

and suddenly it sounds like a grade-school writing assignment, where supposed 'correctness' is more important than sound.

As a quick response to one the other responders: your original sentence, OP, is correctly punctuated.

In the sentence in question, "for" is used as a conjunction in order to join two sentences together. "No one is in a hurry." "The plaza is a pain in the butt." Two complete, separate ideas ideas (each with a subject and predicate) have been made into one sentence by the addition of a comma and a conjunction.

==========

I find that only writers "hear" commas, and only when they are deliberately sounding out a sentence in order to decide whether or not a given comma placement is "correct" based on the pauses they create. The unfortunate truth is, however, that commas are placed in accordance with a set of rules rather than in accordance with pauses, and this for the simple reason that real readers do not "hear" them as such unless you've used dozens.

According to modern usage rules, there is no difference between "park benches and one small fountain" and "park benches, and one small fountain."

I would go with the latter because the Oxford comma is worth several cool points in and of itself. Also because I occasionally will use "and" to closely associate two list items in the middle of a list (in addition to using it to tack on the final item in a list, as in this example).

Originally Posted by Quadrillion

Greetings! New to the forum.

I'm fairly proficient at writing, but comma placement continues to be a daunting task. Here are two situations:

First, the original sentence:

No one was in a hurry, for the plaza was long and the terrain was a bit steep.

This is okay, but it sounds better if you eliminate the second "was".

No one was in a hurry, for the plaza was long and the terrain a bit steep.

Here's the question: Should there be a comma after "terrain"?

Second Situation:

The vendor booths were staggered throughout, accented by a smattering of trees and plantings, park benches and one small fountain.

There seems to be resistance to using the first "and". I like it. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance for your help.

I think the problem is that the first sentence is just a little awkward. Perhaps rewriting the two as "With its long incline the plaza seemed designed to make the visitor slow down, sit on the benches and appreciate the beauty of its small fountain. Vendor booths were staggered throughout, providing [what? tourist souvenirs? refreshments?] near the ornamental plantings and under the few shady trees."

Not a bad idea, I'll look at that again. Re: use of was: I'm fairly conscious of passive vs. active voice. I see passive voice all the time in novels written by well known writers and don't worry about it as long as the important sequences are active voice whenever possible.