Thread: My Editor Wanted to Check-In

First-off: Yes, I know I'm an idiot for paying someone to read and edit my work. In one on my first posts here, I responded to a thread debating the utility of using an editor. It seems a writer must be really bad, have no friends and / or be just plain stupid to hire an editor. Since I qualify on all points, I ask your forgiveness and understanding.

That aside, it seemed like the guy who took my money did seem to have a genuine interest in what I was doing with my manuscript. I thought I'd share my response to him with you all. If you are in a spinning abyss of hopeless torment with no future, relax in the knowledge that I'm already there ahead of you. I'll see you at the bottom.

Enjoy!




Hi R******.

Is this morbid curiosity, or are you just following up on clients? Regardless, you've been upfront and fair with me. The least I can do is return the favor. Even if it means being honest with both of us.

M***** wrote that you wanted to know if I was marketing my manuscript. Over the last six months or so I've sent out dozens of queries to agents. The best responses to date have been impersonal form rejections where they spell my name right. Most have been the generic "Dear Writer" responses. Each one felt like a spade of dirt thrown on my dead effort. I haven't sent a query in almost two months now. I don't take it personal, yet the pain of rejection has put me into a creative paralysis. I've also stopped sending queries because I'm a realist. I knew I was too short to play in the NBA. I'm not smart enough to work for NASA. Now I know I can't write.

If you are checking in with me because you really do care, that puts you in a very, very small group. I printed out the complete manuscript many months ago for my wife to read. I asked her a few times how far she had read. It turned out not far... not far at all. Eventually, I stopped asking. Dittos with my teen-aged daughter.
I can understand that, even if it is hurtful. If I had, in fact, written the most turgid piece of banal tripe to ever disgrace twenty-four pound printer stock, I would hope that my own family would lie to me, at least to spare my feelings. No.
Worse? I told them I was working on a sequel. They never ask me how it's going, offer encouragement. Nothing. I have part of Monday (my day off) that I normally have had time to write. They leave me dirty dishes, laundry and assorted chores to fill-up my day. They don't leave me time. That doesn't matter now anyway. In the last two months I've written a grand total of twelve pages. I know my place now. It is not in front of the Word program.

Have I ever told you what I do for a living? Of course not. It's f***ing embarrassing.
I (insert menial job here).
What agent in their right mind will ever take me seriously? My own family doesn't. I must have been brainwashed by watching too many made-for tv movies. You know the ones. Some blue collar schlub works hard, keeps trying, and eventually breaks into some elite group. People cheer. Right.
I live in the real world. No cheering here. It's real quiet. So quiet, you can hear a dream die.

Thanks for taking the time to check in with me. I apologize that I won't be sending you any of my "writing". It seems people are looking for stories written by writers, not (insert menial job here). I suppose that makes sense. I hope you understand.
Please don't hesitate to keep sending me those cute e-mails. I can use a laugh, on occasion.

Thanks again for your help and support. Take care.

Me

Well... damn.

My first inclination to reading this is to say, "Aw, poor guy." My second, more characteristic inclination is to smack you and tell you to knock it off. I can't think of a single published writer who hasn't been rejected through one, two, three, or even more novels than that. I'm still rounding up rejections to my second attempt, and if that's all I get out of it, I'll go ahead with the third and fourth and fifth attempts.

Mind you, I don't know how many times you've been through the query/rejection process, but regardless of what that number is, I say you give up too easily. Your family doesn't care? Big deal, neither does mine. My boyfriend's been stuck on Chapter 7 of my novel for over six months. His sister left off at Chapter 2. Does it mean my book is destined for the gallows? Well, maybe, but I'd rather see the damn thing through before I make that call. And even if it is garbage, if at first you don't succeed...

So stop whining, and if you really want to write, then go f$#&ing write. If the only reason you write at all is to get published and make truck loads of money, maybe you should take up something else. There's always stamp collecting, after all.

Lastly, I don't think you're a damned fool for going to an editor. Even the best of writers (with the best, most diligent friends) can't catch every mistake. Having someone edit it is the responsible thing to do, and it's indicative of a writer who takes his work seriously. And don't forget about self-publishing. If you really believe in your book, that route is always available.

If you really want to give up already, then do it. If you can't handle rejection, you can't handle the publishing industry. I just find it hard to sympathize with people who cry "I'm a failure" when an endeavor doesn't work out. I have a folder in my inbox filled with over 300 rejections. I have another folder with about 15 acceptances.

You do the math.

A friend of the family was so interested in the novella I was working on that he'd ask me about it every time he saw me. Said he wanted to read it. So when I finished it I dutifully printed a hard copy and sent it to him. It's been more than two months, and I've seen him several times, and he's said nothing about it. And my family, the ones who say I'm a great writer, haven't read it either, or expressed any desire to.

That's just how it goes, Winston. Everyone's said it, but it's true nonetheless: writing is a lonely business. The number of people in your corner compared to the number rooting against you can seem staggering at times.

Also, I don't think you're an idiot for paying for an editor's services, especially if going the self-publishing route. It shows that you care about the quality of your work. If / when I decide to actually try and get published (just having fun writing at the moment), I'd likely do the same. It's necessary to get that kind of objectivity if you're at all interested in turning out a quality product.

I feel your pain. Rejection sucks.

But..

Self-pity sucks even more.

Many of today's successful writers endured similar experiences when trying to break into the market. The distinction is, they didn't give up. If you want to call it quits, that's okay. It's totally understandable. But don't act as if a great injustice has been done to you, or as the world has unfairly dealt you a bum hand.

Stephen King's first novel was rejected. Completely.

So he tried again, wrote a new novel. Rejected. Resoundingly.

So he wrote another novel. Rejected. Utterly.

He wrote a FOURTH novel. Rejected. Humiliatingly.

He began to write a FIFTH novel. Halfway through he couldn't take it anymore and threw the damn thing in the trash. His wife discovered it and encouraged him to finish it. So he did. Rejected 41 times. Finally when all hope seemed lost, a publisher accepted it, his fifth novel after his first four were complete failures, for a meager allowance. It was called "Carrie", his literary debut, and went on to be a genre classic in literature and film.

Dick Wimmer's novel "Irish Wine" received 25 straight years of rejection letters before it was finally published. Allow me to repeat that. He continued to push his novel for TWENTY FIVE YEARS.

The list goes on. I could point out award winning novelists that were rejected for years by editors with form letters and even with comments that bordered on mocking and insulting, but still they stuck it out and ended up victorious in the end.

Keep your chin up and don't go dumping your angst and bitterness onto others, especially not your editor. This is the process that seperates the strong from the weak.

Best of luck!

Families aren't all that supportive and there's no rule that says they have to be. I'd love it if my husband would cook, do dishes, distract the kids, come home early, run errands, and otherwise help me clear time to write but that's not going to happen. I did NaNoWriMo last year so he knew the score already this year and his reaction was 'Are you insane?'.

Apparently, yes.

My family is supportive of my writing to the extent that they're not not-supportive and I think that's about the best I can hope for until I show that I can make it some kind of success (even then I'm pretty sure they'll say 'good job!' through a stifled yawn). If I'd suddenly decided to take up competitive apple-picking, wheat-weaving for fun and profit, or network sales opportunities there's nothing that dictates they have to help me make time for that or be as excited about it as I am.

Unfortunately the creative realm is one that most people figure they could hack if they just up and decide to do it one day. So you can spend years honing your writing skill, churn out and perfect reams of work and maybe eventually find success only to have some fathead who hasn't done any of it look you in the eye and say, "Oh you write? Yeah I was thinking of writing a book."

Oh well.

I guess I can only echo a few of the others here. If you want to write then don't stop pursuing writing. Has the editor commented on your manuscript? It sounds like you paid him and he read it, right? So are there any major suggested changes?

After reading peoples posts I feel quite happy that my mother has read up to chapter 4 in my MS. She stalled now though

Rejection is part of the process. These are only some of the ones I found.

After 500 rejections spanning 4 years, the writer finally lands a publishing deal: Agatha Christie. Her book sales are now in excess of $2 billion. Only William Shakespeare has sold more.

Louis L'Amour received 200 rejections before Bantam took a chance on him. He is now their best ever selling Author with 330 million sales.

“Too different from other juveniles on the market to warrant its selling.” A rejection letter sent to Dr Seuss. 300 million sales and the 9th best-selling fiction Author of all time.

“You have no business being a writer and should give up.” Zane Grey ignores the advice. His 90 books have now sold 250 million copies.

The Tale of Peter Rabbit by Beatrix Potter was rejected so many times she had to initially self publish. To date: 80 million sales.

“It is so badly written.” The Author tries Doubleday instead and his little book makes an impression. The Da Vinci Code sells 80 million.

140 rejections stating “Anthologies don’t sell” until Chicken Soup for the Soul by Jack Canfield & Mark Victor Hansen sells 80 million copies.

“We feel that we don’t know the central character well enough.” The author does a rewrite and his protagonist becomes an icon for a generation as The Catcher In The Rye sells 65 million.

5 Publishers reject L.M. Montgomery's debut novel. L.C. Page & Company does not, and Anne of Green Gables sells 50 million.

“Nobody will want to read a book about a seagull.” Richard Bach's Jonathan Livingston Seagull went on to sell 44 million copies.

“Undisciplined, rambling and thoroughly amateurish writer.” But Jacqueline Susann refuses to give up and her book the Valley of the Dolls sells 30 million.

Margaret Mitchell gets 38 rejections from publishers before finding one to publish her novel Gone With The Wind. Sold 30 million.

“A long, dull novel about an artist.” Publisher rejects Lust For Life by Irving Stone. 25 million sales

“An irresponsible holiday story that will never sell.” Rejection of The Wind In The Willows. 25 million sales.

His Publishers Doubleday rejects the first 100 pages. So the author Peter Benchley starts from scratch and Jaws sells 20 million.

“An absurd and uninteresting fantasy which was rubbish and dull.” Rejection letter sent to William Golding for The Lord Of The Flies. 15 million sales.

After 20 rejection letters, WM Paul Young self publishes his novel The Shack. 15 million sales and a cultural phenomenon.

“An endless nightmare. I think the verdict would be ‘Oh don’t read that horrid book.” Publisher rejects the War Of The Worlds by H.G. Wells

“An absurd story as romance, melodrama or record of New York high life.” Yet Publication see The Great Gatsby become a best-selling classic.

“Stick to teaching.” Louisa May Alcott refuses to give up on her dream. Little Women sells millions, and is still in print 140 years later. Unlike the name of the Publisher who told her to give up.

“We are not interested in science fiction which deals with negative utopias. They do not sell.” Stephen King's Carrie sells 1 million in the first year alone.

“The American public is not interested in China.” Pearl S Buck's The Good Earth becomes the best-selling US novel two years running in 1931/32, and wins The Pulitzer Prize in the process.

The estate of best-seller Jack London in San Francisco, the House Of Happy Walls has a collection of some of the 600 rejections he received before selling a single story.

Well Sunny some of those comments from publishers are shocking. Is it not true that JK Rowling is the best selling author though? More than Agetha Christie?

On a side note and not about a book: I remember back in 1983 a music magazine in Britain reviewed New Orders Blue Monday and said "After the first 20 minutes this starts to cause tense nervous headache". It sold over a million copies on 12" single and is the best selling 12" of all time.

Yes.. I thought they were shocking too!

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone by J.K Rowling spawns a series where the last four novels consecutively set records as the fastest-selling books in history, on both sides of the Atlantic, with combined sales of 400 million.

So I guess she still didn't reach the high numbers of Agatha Christie.

Isn't it strange how one person can tell you it's garbage and in no way should you persue to have it published, and then it takes just that one other person to see your work for what you think it is... and they make it a hit!

When I start to feel down, thinking is this ever going to happen for me? I just remember to take a look at all of those names and all of the rejections they went through. If you can't handle being rejected hundreds of times, it's best not to start. It's just part of the process. When I get a rejection, I just smile. Thinking well, at least I'm still trying!

At least you are trying. I have not sent anything yet so not had a rejection yet. But I am preparing myself

The stats about the number of rejections famous authors have gone through are reassuring to some extent, but then... I don't want to get 500 rejections and STILL not get a novel published. Though I suppose, especially today, self-publishing is always a viable option. I'd be happier to have 20 copies of my book in existence than zero, if it comes to that. And then it will be time to move on and get the next one ready.

If you believe Mary Oliver, “To live in this world, you must be able to do three things: to love what is mortal; to hold it against your bones knowing your own life depends on it; and, when the time comes to let it go, to let it go.” I believe that this applies equally well to your novels. Yes, you love them and have spent countless hours on them. But at some point you need to set them aside for (at least temporary) obscurity, and move on to a new writing project.

Robdemanc,

Yes. I started with agents first. I've read that as a new author trying to get representation from an agent without having been previously published by a recognisable publishing firm, you have something like a 4% chance of getting an agent. It's all very hard work. But if you don't try, it will never happen, and you'll only have yourself to blame. If you want it bad enough, and you're willing to take advice from the people that know (sticking to what you believe to be right, of course) the in's and out's of it all. I think we can all make it.

Being positive, believing in yourself even when it feels like no one else does. That will make the difference. Having that inner drive, that says , I don't care if you think it stinks, I'll find someone who loves it!

Good luck when you start! It's actually exciting to hit "send" on that first query letter. :0)

Have you tried posting a sample for critique by the forum? I would be interested in reading it. Just because it's being rejected now doesn't mean that it's worthless. It may be that it just needs some polishing. Than again, it may be that you need to start over with something new. Either way, if writing is what you feel you are meant to do, than my personal view is that it is your responsibility not to be shut down by a few rejection letters. If you need to improve, then that's what you need to do, but you should definitely not give up. Your story is something that the world needs to hear.

I always think of how many students get athletic scholarships - and how many make it to the Big Time. I figure I'll be able to deal with rejection letters.

Originally Posted by Tiamat10

My second, more characteristic inclination is to smack you and tell you to knock it off. I can't think of a single published writer who hasn't been rejected through one, two, three, or even more novels than that. I'm still rounding up rejections to my second attempt, and if that's all I get out of it, I'll go ahead with the third and fourth and fifth attempts.

Mind you, I don't know how many times you've been through the query/rejection process, but regardless of what that number is, I say you give up too easily. Your family doesn't care? Big deal, neither does mine. My boyfriend's been stuck on Chapter 7 of my novel for over six months. His sister left off at Chapter 2. Does it mean my book is destined for the gallows? Well, maybe, but I'd rather see the damn thing through before I make that call. And even if it is garbage, if at first you don't succeed...

So stop whining, and if you really want to write, then go f$#&ing write. If the only reason you write at all is to get published and make truck loads of money, maybe you should take up something else. There's always stamp collecting, after all.

Part of me wants to agree with you, but another part of me has to tell you that no one but the person Winston paid to read his book has shown any interest in it. Shouldn't that throw up some red flags?

I have no experience with publishing, and absolutely no actual credentials when it comes to writing. I make no claims as to my level of skill. However, I will say this: I've had two people (who I don't know and who have no reason to read my work other than pure interest) read entirely through the 23 chapters I've written of my own story. That's 130,000 words. I didn't ask for them to do it. I didn't offer any reading exchanges. I simply put my story out there and said, "Feel free to take a look." These two people each took a 130,000 word look. In other words, if what you write is worth reading, people WILL read it.

Yes, rejection is a part of life and a part of being a writer. I doubt anyone has written a manuscript and gotten it accepted just like that. Still, like Winston said, he doesn't play basketball because he doesn't have the body for it. He doesn't fly in space because he doesn't have the education for it. And now, he doesn't write for the same sort of reason. This isn't about rejection. This is about saying, "I thought I could do something and I can't. Writing brings me no joy anymore, and it's time to call it quits." If a writer doesn't like what he does and his readers don't like what he does, why should he continue?

Now, in that mess of hurtful "things are awful and you should end it now" thoughts, I've avoided something important. As Sunny says above, lots of prolific writers had a very slow start. If you're really serious about writing, don't let rejection discourage you. Instead, use it to drive yourself to become better. Study books that have been successful and see how they differ from your own work. Hire more editors if you can, and evaluate and incorporate their criticism and advice into your future projects. Watch movies and ask yourself, "What did they do that makes this so compelling?"

You may be at the bottom of the abyss now, but that means there's nowhere to go but up. If you have the desire to improve yourself, you WILL improve. That's all there is to it. Ultimately, you have the last word on your fate. If you don't want to write anymore, don't write anymore. If you do, work to fix your problems instead of giving in to them.