Thread: Old school and uselsss?

I am old school when it comes to writing I suppose and there has been a rash of writing in present tense, but if I run across a book written in present tense I throw it down as if I had accidentally picked up a rattle snake. To me, fiction written in present tense is just plain annoying.

In my own opinion anything that wears on the reader should be avoided, not just writing in present tense, but anything. In my opinion, which is just my opinion, a writer writing in present tense pulls my attention to them and off the story.

For another thing it introduces special problems that the writer might not notice but the reader will.

I suppose the reason why so many amateurs use present tense is to write what they see in their own mind, but I should think the first goal for beginning fiction writers would be to learn to tell a story first and to get the attention off the author and onto the characters he is writing about.

It seems now-a-days that every other story people submit for crit or opinions is present tense stuff and people are more than willing to accept it. More common in the Y/A crowd and acceptable with them, but is there ever a time when using poor writing methods is acceptable? Are we facing the dumbing down of our future writers?

I don’t want to be cruel to new writers, but when I come across a whole slush of would be writers putting out such crap I want to scream at them.

I am afraid we are allowing the dumbing down of young writers without firing a shot, but the publishers will remain publishers...or will they soon begin publishing crap too?

Am I just too old fashioned to be critting now-a-days and should just go on and play with my marbles?

“I open the door to the restaurant, I walk among the tables and there she is, I look into her eyes and she smiles at me, I soak in her gaze.”

I mean, what kind of crap is that? I mean, we are story tellers for heavens sake, not reporters at a boxing match!
Am I just getting too old and out of touch?

River

Don't sit on the fence, tell us what you really think...

Originally Posted by Bloggsworth

Don't sit on the fence, tell us what you really think...

hehe...

Originally Posted by River

I am old school when it comes to writing I suppose and there has been a rash of writing in present tense, but if I run across a book written in present tense I throw it down as if I had accidentally picked up a rattle snake. To me, fiction written in present tense is just plain annoying.

In my own opinion anything that wears on the reader should be avoided, not just writing in present tense, but anything. In my opinion, which is just my opinion, a writer writing in present tense pulls my attention to them and off the story.

For another thing it introduces special problems that the writer might not notice but the reader will.

I suppose the reason why so many amateurs use present tense is to write what they see in their own mind, but I should think the first goal for beginning fiction writers would be to learn to tell a story first and to get the attention off the author and onto the characters he is writing about.

It seems now-a-days that every other story people submit for crit or opinions is present tense stuff and people are more than willing to accept it. More common in the Y/A crowd and acceptable with them, but is there ever a time when using poor writing methods is acceptable? Are we facing the dumbing down of our future writers?

I don’t want to be cruel to new writers, but when I come across a whole slush of would be writers putting out such crap I want to scream at them.

I am afraid we are allowing the dumbing down of young writers without firing a shot, but the publishers will remain publishers...or will they soon begin publishing crap too?

Am I just too old fashioned to be critting now-a-days and should just go on and play with my marbles?

“I open the door to the restaurant, I walk among the tables and there she is, I look into her eyes and she smiles at me, I soak in her gaze.”

I mean, what kind of crap is that? I mean, we are story tellers for heavens sake, not reporters at a boxing match!
Am I just getting too old and out of touch?

River

You're transposing your own personal preference onto fiction in general. You may think it's crap. Many others don't. Ignore the stuff you don't like and enjoy the rest.

Originally Posted by Rob

You're transposing your own personal preference onto fiction in general. You may think it's crap. Many others don't. Ignore the stuff you don't like and enjoy the rest.

Is it transposing my own preferences to hold up such as Steinbeck's 'Grapes Of Wrath' or Twain's "The Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn' as a model for us?
Or the modern writers such as King, McMurtry as examples to follow? Since when does poor writing practices have to become the acceptable norm?
Fiction writers are story tellers for Gods sake, not reporters.

Just because many others think crap ain't crap, ain't crap still crap?

Originally Posted by River

Is it transposing my own preferences to hold up such as Steinbeck's 'Grapes Of Wrath' or Twain's "The Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn' as a model for us?
Or the modern writers such as King, McMurtry as examples to follow? Since when does poor writing practices have to become the acceptable norm?
Fiction writers are story tellers for Gods sake, not reporters.

Just because many others think crap ain't crap, ain't crap still crap?

What does you thinking present tense is crap have to do with those authors?

Who said poor writing practices have become the acceptable norm?

Okay, I was reading someone's story and came upon your critique:

Originally Posted by River

You started the story in present tense then switched to past tense, not sure why. Is there a reason for that?
Anyhow I would get rid of the present tense and just tell the story.

and then found another of your posts:

Originally Posted by River

If you see my critiques you may wish I had never come here. I don't edit for others, nor do I tear them down unless they put out a piece in freaking present tense. I kicked my last dog out because he peed on my floor! Writing in present tense is the same as peeing on my floor. it assaults every nerve in my being.

Do not pee on my floor!

So now it's clear you have a real personal issue with present tense. Reading those in conjunction with your original post, I don't think think you're too old and out of touch, because I know plenty of very old writers who have no problem at all with present tense. I just think you have an issue with it that makes it pointless for you to comment on it. Present tense is a perfectly acceptable form of writing for short stories and for novels. Some people don't like it, and that's fine. You're one of them, and that's fine too. But as I suggested in my earlier post, ignore the stuff you don't like and enjoy the rest.

If someone has a problem with tenses, switches them unnecessarily for instance, that's a common novice error and there's nothing wrong with pointing it out. If you're going to start suggesting that they should switch tense based on your own hatred of present tense, that's something altogether different and not in the best interests of the person whose work you're commenting on. IMO.

There must be plenty of other stories you can offer constructive comments on, if you wish to.

I have no problem reading story in present tense. If I like a story, I do not care whether it is in present tense or past tense, in first person or third person. Except for those choose your own adventure kind of books, I had never come across a novel in second person.

Originally Posted by Rob

So now it's clear you have a real personal issue with present tense.

I think he just has personal issues. It is irrational to hate the present tense, after all, we live in the present...

Originally Posted by Rob

Okay, I was reading someone's story and came upon your critique:



and then found another of your posts:


So now it's clear you have a real personal issue with present tense. Reading those in conjunction with your original post, I don't think think you're too old and out of touch, because I know plenty of very old writers who have no problem at all with present tense. I just think you have an issue with it that makes it pointless for you to comment on it. Present tense is a perfectly acceptable form of writing for short stories and for novels. Some people don't like it, and that's fine. You're one of them, and that's fine too. But as I suggested in my earlier post, ignore the stuff you don't like and enjoy the rest.

If someone has a problem with tenses, switches them unnecessarily for instance, that's a common novice error and there's nothing wrong with pointing it out. If you're going to start suggesting that they should switch tense based on your own hatred of present tense, that's something altogether different and not in the best interests of the person whose work you're commenting on. IMO.

There must be plenty of other stories you can offer constructive comments on, if you wish to.

I had no ax to grind with the poster I commented on, I honestly wanted to know his/her reasons for the switch and I neither do I have an ax to grind with you.

What I do have an ax to grind with is the general dumbing down of our youth in America. Is this what the educational system is turning out now?

The fact that you consider a perceived increase in the use of a particular tense as a 'dumbing down' is where the problem lies. There is no reason to believe that any kind of decline in quality of writing or the intelligence of writers would be caused by a change in the frequency of a perfectly acceptable method of storytelling.

Present tense annoys some, not others. It annoys me and, like you, I tend to throw down books that are written in that manner.

However, it's a stretch to say that writing in non-present tenses is upholding the ways of great writers. The Grapes of Wrath and Huck Finn are great works, indeed, but not because of their tense. They're great because of their content, not the method by which they were conveyed.

It's fairly arrogant to assume that because you don't like present tense that it must be 'bad'. If others don't believe it is, and you do, then your opinion, unfortunately, doesn't veto theirs.

Originally Posted by Bloggsworth

I think he just has personal issues. It is irrational to hate the present tense, after all, we live in the present...

The present is really just the space between past and future. I am typing this in the present, but as soon as my fingers leave the keys then it is already in the past. It's in the past when I read it back and before anyone else reads it.

When a writer tells a story in present tense they are trying to convey the idea that it's happening now; that the story is being told and the events are taking place as I read. Which is of course nonsense and is a fallacy to even try to convey that idea. All stories are set in the past because the events must already have happened for someone to be narrating them. (With the exception of soothsayers, of course!)

Originally Posted by yingguoren

The present is really just the space between past and future. I am typing this in the present, but as soon as my fingers leave the keys then it is already in the past. It's in the past when I read it back and before anyone else reads it.

When a writer tells a story in present tense they are trying to convey the idea that it's happening now; that the story is being told and the events are taking place as I read. Which is of course nonsense and is a fallacy to even try to convey that idea. All stories are set in the past because the events must already have happened for someone to be narrating them. (With the exception of soothsayers, of course!)

Like 2001: A Space Odyysey, Farenheit 451, 1984 - All set in the past...

I haven't read 2001 or Farenheit 451, but yes Nineteen Eighty-Four was written in 1948, so was actually set in the future. But from the perspective of the narrator, Winston Smith, the events had already happened and were therefore in his past. Ergo, the book is told in the past tense.

Good try though!