Thread: How detailed should our plot be?

At the beginning stages of a book, before the first page is written, while we're still taking notes and marking ideas, how far should we go before we can leave things to the imagination? Are a few pages worth of plot summary, some character profiles and a special space for 'misc and notes' at the bottom of our notepad sufficient for writing a proper story? Or should we plan everything out, down to the very last detail, before making our first input on the blank A4 MS Word document page?

When I begin to write a story, the plot outline is usually rather unevolved. I know how the story starts, I plan the middle parts and pave the road that leads to the finale. The rest is left to my imagination, but sometimes I feel that it would be better if I looked further down the road before starting - it helps makes the story more consistent.

What are your thoughts?

I prefer to know how the story will end before I begin writing. Less heartburn that way.

As for writing individual scenes, it's much more hazy. Again, I know how I want to begin and end, I know vaguely what the characters want to accomplish -- the change that should happen -- but I also like to leave a lot of the finer details to the process of discovery.

So with me it is a mixture of both. I have a map and a guide and theoretically I know my way through the land, but I've never seen the terrain. I suppose one day it might bite me in the ass -- I'll venture out to write another fine novel and disappear into the mists and never be heard from again.

Both ways work.

And that's a pretty tall monitor, that displays A4 plus all the other gunk. Wow. I'd need a neck-brace.

I have read, from people like Patricia Highsmith, Ian Rankin, etc. that they start at the end and work back to the beginning.

I wish I could... but so far my ill-discipline has let me just ramble - and it shows.

As to documenting it all, I am a big fan of mind-mapping software. It is great for evolving thoughts.

One of the easiest to use, I have found, is Freeplane - free mind mapping and knowledge management software

One of my favorite writers of all time, Mr. Ray Bradbury, said, and I'm loosely paraphrasing, "I never know where the hell I'm going when I write a story. All I do is start with characters that I like, and I let them run free."

I find that approach works best for me, as well. Some people need more of a structure. But if you plan everything out, it leaves little room for creative freedom.

I say you go with whatever seems to give you the most momentum. If you feel you are running out of steam at some point, try something different. But otherwise, go with whatever works for you.

Originally Posted by Mortimer

At the beginning stages of a book, before the first page is written, while we're still taking notes and marking ideas, how far should we go before we can leave things to the imagination? Are a few pages worth of plot summary, some character profiles and a special space for 'misc and notes' at the bottom of our notepad sufficient for writing a proper story? Or should we plan everything out, down to the very last detail, before making our first input on the blank A4 MS Word document page?

When I begin to write a story, the plot is usually rather unevolved. I know how the story starts, I plan the middle parts and pave the road that leads to the finale. The rest is left to my imagination, but sometimes I feel that it would be better if I looked further down the road before starting - it helps makes the story more consistent.

What are your thoughts?

I don't think "plot" is what you meant here. Sounds more like you are talking about an outline or story bible. The plot is just what happens in the story, not the level of planning you put into it.

I try to use outlines, personally, because it helps me see if what I'm aiming for actually makes sense or not. Plus, it's easier to make major changes to an outline then a full manuscript. Unfortunately I suck at writing outlines. >_<

I suppose you should just try to figure out which method works best for you. I don't think there's a good universal tactic to plan your novel, since we all tend to approach writing differently anyway.

Originally Posted by Zootalaws

I have read, from people like Patricia Highsmith, Ian Rankin, etc. that they start at the end and work back to the beginning.

I wish I could... but so far my ill-discipline has let me just ramble - and it shows.

I tend to start with the beginning, then try to see the ending, then add specific scenes I want to happen, and finally try to fill in the blanks in-between.

Yes, you mean 'outline', not 'plot'.

I'm with Ray Bradbury. I have no idea where a story will go once I start writing. I get the idea for a beginning and I take it from there. It hasn't led me astray yet.

I'd say that when you have 50,000 words of an outline, that's overdoing it.

If you're looking for a bunch of opinions on how to approach story planning -- that's just what you'll get. And you probably won't get anything out of it. And that some author does it a certain way doesn't give it any more weight. This is the sort of thing you'll arrive at through trial and error. I can tell you I outline all my stories -- but how does that help you? If what you're doing doesn't seem to be working -- try something else.

Anders, Sam - outline is a better word indeed! I meant to include character profiles and other writing misc in it. Thank you!

Joseph - I wasn't looking for help with my writing when I made this thread! It was intended to be a normal discussion. But thanks for the hasty attempt to come to my rescue.

Heh. It certainly seemed like you where asking for advice. Maybe you should have called the thread "Let's talk about story outlines!"

With my new project I just started this week, I started with a page of backstory only that just set up how the general interactions between the factions of the world worked and a general map of my new realm. I had no real plot to speak of except that the world was fearful of the return of certain uber powerful lords of the past which they had previously defeated. I started writing and had 20 pages down before I realized, I had no idea where the story was going. I sat with a notepad in hand for three hours trying to come up with ideas. But I got nothing.

I went to bed. I got up the next morning. I opened up the file I had started during lunch and at that point the whole concept of where this story was going just clicked. I sketched out the entire story from the end of that 20th page I already had to the very end. Every day I have tweaked it, but the overall plot has remained unchanged.

I think it is hard to write a story for myself just freewheeling it. But I have written large portions of some of them by that tactic. And things always change. But I always outline at least where a story is going otherwise I find I start to wonder and get off focus.

Outlines, like rules, were made to be broken. No plan, or plot outline, survives first contact with the enemy (i.e. myself). And when all else fails, just write.

My thought is, either make the outline as short as possible or as detailed as possible; if the outline isn't pretty much a complete first draft in summary form then you're going to change much of it anyway so there's little point in spending that time on something you won't use.

I like the 'Snowflake Method' where you start with a one paragraph description of the story and then expand it in multiple steps until you have a complete outline or you give up and start writing with whatever level of detail you've reached. But for the latest novel I started with some characters doing something, wrote a rough first draft and then created an outline from that for the second draft. I'm not yet sure which works best.

The project I am currently working on I am leaving the ending very open but have the basic premise of it(but only very basic). I am doing this purposefully, the last novel I wrote I had a very set detailed ending then poof, I decided once it was written it wasn't the end and that I needed to rewrite the part that had been the ending pretty drastically. So either way can work but if you have a very detailed ending planned, I would say be okay with it changing.

With my current work I knew the end and the beginning but was unclear about the middle. I just wrote. The middle seemed to take care of itself as I was writing.