Thread: Trouble With Hero and Villain!

Hello everyone! Here's my problem. I have these two characters. One is going to be the main heroine of the story. The other will serve as the chief villain. However, while I know who's going to be who, I'm not sure what their circumstances should be. They are both females and I am a male writer. These two are probably not your typical female. I'm not revealing their full names, so I'll make abbreviations (JC and AC). Here are brief descriptions of both:

JC: Grows up as an only child, parents don't divorce but hate each other to death, lives life as a loner (has very little support outside of a few friends), she is constantly humiliated and everyone thinks she doesn't have the guts to do things she says she wants to do...as a result of all this, she joins the military and gains new strength...sort of to prove people wrong...she eventually finds new friends in the military but becomes a bit obsessed with the power (physical, mental, etc.) she has obtained from her military experience. With her being a loner since her childhood, she has questionable social skills and isn't a 'people' person. Originally, she is an emotional person because her entire life is draining her...but when she develops strength through her military experience, she starts becoming rather stoic.

AC: An only child who has a good relationship with both parents (a little shaky with her mother), shy, ambitious, rebellious, likes taking risks, joins the military because she's forced into it (either financially or by getting in trouble with the law), really a brute from the outset...perhaps some may look at her as a bully....but she matures over time and develops more emotions.

Alright. Now, the problem I'm having is which of these characters would make the most interesting hero? Then, who would be the best villain? This may or may not seem obvious, but I want a truthful answer and why. I'm only considering this as a 'suggestion' vote. I think I know what I would like to do, but am seeking others' opinions. How would these two characters seem the most original? Thanks!

As I see it, this is more of a Protagonist vs Antagonist story than a Hero vs Villain; there is a big difference between both. As I see it, neither fits the hero nor the villain archetypes, thus they are just main characters with opposite intentions. Now, Marthix, which viewpoint do you want to use? JC's, AC's or both? You have three options here, and I'd personally go for the last.

By the way, how is a shy person a bully? I think you are overly empathizing their childhoods as a way to make me sympathize with JC and not with AC, to the point it feels forced. I'm not trying to put you down with this, but maybe you should bring the emphasis to the current situation rather than info dumped back stories. I'd grow fonder with a "cold, but caring person that's holds deep emotional scars" than hearing about everything that happened to her before knowing what she's like (because stoic isn't very descriptive)

Hmm...well, as for viewpoints, I'm not sure. You see, I also have this a male lead (let's call him SD) that I was thinking about using for my story. He is connected to both AC and JC. Perhaps there may be a little love triangle going on, but I'm not going to make it appear cliche. It will be a different one. It's just kind of hard to know just how many viewpoints I should have. I definitely want to write from AC's perspective, since I know her character inside and out. As for AC being a bully...well...she's kind of a quiet person but has a mean attitude. She's not afraid to put up a fight with someone, male or female. That doesn't mean she's frightened of things though.

As for empathizing their childhoods to make the readers sympathize with my two characters, that isn't my intention. I should say that most of the stuff I mentioned is happening to them currently. I am not going to info dump about their pasts. The reader will not be stuck into their past. Most of my story will focus on their current situation. The story will be defined by their actions and motives, not by their past.

Hmm...as for the 'cold, but caring person' part, you're talking about JC? Would there be a problem if she ever became an antagonist by writing from her perspective? Or, should I say, that I should write from her perspective until she switches sides? If I go with writing from both JC's and AC's perspectives, is there any room for SD? I don't want to make this story too sophisticated. However, I do admit that I know both JC and AC extremely well. In my mind, they were born female because that's who they are. These are two unique female characters, but I didn't make them female because it would 'be cool.'

Also, elite, please explain more about the Protagonist vs. Antagonist story against the Hero vs. Villain story. I just want to know your thoughts more on that part of your post. Thank you very much for the post! Anyone else, please feel free to respond too!

Originally Posted by Marthix2011

Hmm...well, as for viewpoints, I'm not sure.

This is one of the most important decisions you have to make when you write a story. How you tell it has an immense effect in how we, the readers, empathize with it. Depending in what you want to convey, certain viewpoints will be better than others.

You see, I also have this a male lead (let's call him SD) that I was thinking about using for my story. He is connected to both AC and JC. Perhaps there may be a little love triangle going on, but I'm not going to make it appear cliche. It will be a different one.

I'm not sure of how a love triangle would play out in the military, but give it a go if you feel like it's worth it.

It's just kind of hard to know just how many viewpoints I should have. I definitely want to write from AC's perspective, since I know her character inside and out. As for AC being a bully...well...she's kind of a quiet person but has a mean attitude. She's not afraid to put up a fight with someone, male or female. That doesn't mean she's frightened of things though.

Well, stoic and shy are two completely different things, try to use a better adjective next time

Like I said, you can write with both perspectives, or focus on how one explores the other. Both gives the same results. You don't need to tell the story from her viewpoint to tell us what she thinks, and one of the great parts of interrelationships is to find out who a character is through the eyes of another.

As for empathizing their childhoods to make the readers sympathize with my two characters, that isn't my intention. I should say that most of the stuff I mentioned is happening to them currently. I am not going to info dump about their pasts. The reader will not be stuck into their past. Most of my story will focus on their current situation. The story will be defined by their actions and motives, not by their past.

I didn't refer to how you are writing the story, but how you wrote your post. Basically, I get some really sad back story and then the final conclusion is that "she's stoic". I think that's doing a disservice to your character, whom you've probably spent time developing. It would also be easier to grasp the situation if you just summarized exactly what's going on, but you didn't.

Hmm...as for the 'cold, but caring person' part, you're talking about JC?

I just threw the impression I got from her to make my point.

Would there be a problem if she ever became an antagonist by writing from her perspective? Or, should I say, that I should write from her perspective until she switches sides? If I go with writing from both JC's and AC's perspectives, is there any room for SD? I don't want to make this story too sophisticated.

Switches sides, with who? From the information you gave me, I have two characters (possibly a third) that don't really get along. And how these two interact is the whole point of your story. So I don't know what "side" you're referring to.

However, I do admit that I know both JC and AC extremely well. In my mind, they were born female because that's who they are. These are two unique female characters, but I didn't make them female because it would 'be cool.'

I think you're mixing up two different threads. I didn't even read your username when you posted this, so I didn't make a connection. Anyways, what we said was something to "watch for," because it's a mistake that happens often enough to make it into the big screen at least once a month, and will without doubt upset a large portion of your audience.

Also, elite, please explain more about the Protagonist vs. Antagonist story against the Hero vs. Villain story. I just want to know your thoughts more on that part of your post. Thank you very much for the post! Anyone else, please feel free to respond too!

A hero is the good guy, and a villain is the bad guy. In order to have a hero vs villain story, you need the villain to first portray itself as evil, and the hero to react and attempt to stop it. In this case, we have two characters that are neither good or evil, so it all depends on who you side with, thus it becomes protagonist vs antagonist. It's a clash of people going in different directions.

Originally Posted by Marthix2011

Hello everyone! Here's my problem. I have these two characters. One is going to be the main heroine of the story. The other will serve as the chief villain. However, while I know who's going to be who, I'm not sure what their circumstances should be. They are both females and I am a male writer. These two are probably not your typical female. I'm not revealing their full names, so I'll make abbreviations (JC and AC). Here are brief descriptions of both:

JC: Grows up as an only child, parents don't divorce but hate each other to death, lives life as a loner (has very little support outside of a few friends), she is constantly humiliated and everyone thinks she doesn't have the guts to do things she says she wants to do...as a result of all this, she joins the military and gains new strength...sort of to prove people wrong...she eventually finds new friends in the military but becomes a bit obsessed with the power (physical, mental, etc.) she has obtained from her military experience. With her being a loner since her childhood, she has questionable social skills and isn't a 'people' person. Originally, she is an emotional person because her entire life is draining her...but when she develops strength through her military experience, she starts becoming rather stoic.

AC: An only child who has a good relationship with both parents (a little shaky with her mother), shy, ambitious, rebellious, likes taking risks, joins the military because she's forced into it (either financially or by getting in trouble with the law), really a brute from the outset...perhaps some may look at her as a bully....but she matures over time and develops more emotions.

Alright. Now, the problem I'm having is which of these characters would make the most interesting hero? Then, who would be the best villain? This may or may not seem obvious, but I want a truthful answer and why. I'm only considering this as a 'suggestion' vote. I think I know what I would like to do, but am seeking others' opinions. How would these two characters seem the most original? Thanks!

JC seems like your villain and AC appears to be the naive protagonist. If I were to approach it, I would make JC as the one who spoils everyone else and AC starts out as the naive person that she takes advantage of. I actually have a story like this that involves two adept psychics where one takes advantage of the other. If it helps, I'd be glad to send you the story if it helps! Just private message me!

JC sounds like your villain; AC sounds like your hero. I'd like to see that reversed.

Originally Posted by seigfried007

JC sounds like your villain; AC sounds like your hero. I'd like to see that reversed.

Alright. Why?

My first thought was to have JC as the protaganist (hero). She comes from nothing, and has to struggle against those with family ties to make her place in the world.

Neither character strikes me as inherently evil.

JC: Grows up as an only child, parents don't divorce but hate each other to death, lives life as a loner (has very little support outside of a few friends), she is constantly humiliated and everyone thinks she doesn't have the guts to do things she says she wants to do...as a result of all this, she joins the military and gains new strength...sort of to prove people wrong...she eventually finds new friends in the military but becomes a bit obsessed with the power (physical, mental, etc.) she has obtained from her military experience. With her being a loner since her childhood, she has questionable social skills and isn't a 'people' person. Originally, she is an emotional person because her entire life is draining her...but when she develops strength through her military experience, she starts becoming rather stoic.

Bad childhood. Bad Childhood. BAD CHILDHOOD! So many warning signs of villain (bad childhood, loner, want for power, loss of emotion, terrible social skills) and it's getting worse instead of better.

You used the term 'obsessed', which is never associated with 'good guys'.

AC: An only child who has a good relationship with both parents (a little shaky with her mother), shy, ambitious, rebellious, likes taking risks, joins the military because she's forced into it (either financially or by getting in trouble with the law), really a brute from the outset...perhaps some may look at her as a bully....but she matures over time and develops more emotions.

Starts out mildly bad but gets better. Sounds like a bad-guy-gone-good kinda hero. For the most part, she's pretty normal and easy to sympathize with.

You used the term 'mature', which is never associated with 'bad guys' except ones that eventually become 'good guys'.

Neither's eevil. Both could be either, but I'd like to see the quo reversed

Stoic and shy may not be the same thing, but can very easily appear in the same being. And stoic is to me, very telling.
The first is the one I empathize with. She would be my protagonist, and btw, I like your explanation in this, Elite.

As the disagreements in the discussion seem to indicate and as other posters have pointed out neither of these characters seem to be really evil. I would say it could go either way and be interesting.

Interesting posts. Hmm...well, I've been thinking about JC and her situaton. I find that her story could be very interesting and in-depth. As for AC, she's been in my head for nearly seven years now. I first pictured her as a villain, but then saw her as an antihero (more or less). I've been glued to AC for nearly seven years and know her pretty good. As for JC, she's newer and I've thought about so many scenarios with her where she can become a villain. Let me add a little more information/ideas about these two if they were to switch what I had in mind (AC being hero and JC being villain...let's switch those around with my ideas below).

AC comes from a fairly wealthy family. Like I said before, she is tough from the beginning. Her occupation before the military is very physical, so she's in very good shape, but is prone to injuries.

JC's family is middle-class at best. She has a hunger for attention as she is often overshadowed. Nearly everytime she has a moment of success, someone goes and squashes that moment. Her life is pretty stressful and all she wants is to step out of the 'shadows' and gain some recognition.

All in all, over the past year while I've been in college, I've thought about JC being the villain and AC being the hero/antihero. The two are comrades at some point, but an action AC pulls off pretty much destroys their friendship. However, that move also gives JC power and the ability to use that power to bring pain to those who've treated her badly before. I don't want to frame JC's childhood as BAD (in fact, it was very good). What I'm emphasizing is that I'm writing about these females when they are in their mid-20's or so. I'm not going to rely on their childhoods much at all. I'm sticking to the present and not presenting this story in medias res. I'm really focusing on what's happening now. You know, JC's life isn't that great. However, not all dimensions of her life are bad. She is human and so is AC. What do you guys think?