Thread: Your first novel

So I've been mostly writing shorter stories, somewhere around 5000-10000, the longest I've written is probably around 20,000.
I've been interested in writing something in the neighborhood of a novel length but found this to be kind of daunting and could use some advice.

How do you motivate yourself to consistently stick to one story and continue to develop it? Maybe you don't need any motivation?
How long do you take (if any) to prepare an outline? and how in-depth does your outline go?
Do you create your story as you go, or have you figured out everything that will happen before you've begun writing?
How do you keep track of your characters? Your setting? etc.

Some of these questions might seem dumb, but these are all questions that I've been wondering. I never realized, until I decided I wanted to, how much work must go into writing a novel.

So if you can, please tell me what your process of writing anything novel-length is, any advice would be appreciated!

Thanks

Generally, I don't have a case of I need to work on this right now and do X amount of words a day, It's usually a gradual thing. I sit down to write, get a few ideas, write down a few thousand words and leave it for the day, maybe tomorrow I'll pick it up again, maybe it will be in a week.

as to planning, I generally have a very, very rough outline, if I have one at all. Usually I'll have the ending, but not how to get there. Usually I just go with it and see where it takes me, which seems to have worked out pretty well (except in one case where I pretty much discarded 30,000 words or so because it wasn't making any sense/veered to far away from what I wanted)

As I create as I go I've never really had a problem that much with settings/places/characters names, but during the writing of a novel a while ago, I made a giant whiteboard for my office so I could keep track of names as I found random names popping up in places with no idea who that person was. It also made it easier for me during editing, this person does X make sure it is consistent throughout kinda thing.

It seemed like a lot more work than it is really. especially when you break it down. People think wow, 75,000 words, that's so much! but really, when you break it down, it becomes much more managable. let's say you write a thousand words a day, in 75 days, what ever you have written is novel length. Likewise with your short stories, chances are you have well gone over the 75000 word total in your creative endevours.

One of the problems people can have is getting a story to stretch to that length and still be interesting. One way to start would be to write out the entire thing, with no regard for word count, you can have a rough aim of 75,000 word as a goal, but don't put too much pressure on that because in editing you can add more scenes and events which will help legthen the work.

Really, every one's process is different, some people plan out the novel in it's entirety before they put pen to paper, they know every character, every event, then just fill in the blanks around it. Personally, I couldn't do that because wheres the fun? I know whats going to happen so what's my incentive to write it?
Chances are that what ever you do to write your short stories (especially those that fall into the longer catagory) will be similar enough to apply to a novel.
If you're worried about characters/settings/timelines, buy a notepad and, once you have written out your scenes for the day, go to your notepad and write down the character's names/locations and a quick line to let you know what they are doing so you are keeping track as you go and if you ever get confused you can flick back through and see where everyone is.

How long have you been writing? It sounds like you have been at it a few years. Many writers, including me, hit a brick wall, 2-3,000 words into our first attempts. Those of us who do not give up, start a new project, hit another brick wall 3-4,000 words in, start another project, etc. Each attempt gradually becomes longer until eventually we finish a full-length novel. We might go back and add another 5,000 words to a previous effort before hitting another brick wall. The important thing is to keep writing. It is a skill that improves with practice and over time, it was my experience that eventually I could see a project through to the end. Did you write short stories because you never finished previous attempts at longer stories? If so, your experience was not unique. If you want to try a novel now, my advice is to start and do not get frustrated if you do not finish it right away. The important thing is to write. So long as you are writing, you are gaining experience and building up your endurance. I recently finished my first novel that I worked through from start to finish without a major break. It took me 20 years to get to this point. I may be slower than most. I have completed previous novels, but only incrementally. I was probably finishing those stories 10 years ago after many interruptions and re-starts.

The one I just finished was the first novel that I wrote from an outline. Each chapter had a goal telling me where the story had to be by the end of that chapter but how I got there was complete free form.

I write a short biography, just a few sentences, on each character. I list their skills and talents, their lack of skills (what they need help with from other characters), some personality quirks (I like to give several characters their own unique way of speaking so that readers can tell who they are without needing a dialogue tag). I give each major character a hobby or two. The bio also includes what life events made the character the way they are now. This usually leads to some back story that gets inserted into the novel somewhere.

Why not just take one of your short stories and see if it can stretch into a novel? When I wrote my 100,000 word story it sort of came out of me without trying. The ideas and plot and many characters came to me as I was writing. I was in 'flow'. But you could also just think of an idea: "What if......." etc. Then just develop it slowly and see where it goes.

Thanks for the input!
I haven't attempted writing a novel yet, but I think taking some of my short stories and expanding them might be a fun idea.
I like the idea of having a whiteboard or notepad in order to keep track of my characters. Since I'm usually writing on my computer, I really don't like having to switch back and forth between screens to check stuff. I'd much rather have it on paper next to me.

some people plan out the novel in it's entirety before they put pen to paper, they know every character, every event, then just fill in the blanks around it. Personally, I couldn't do that because wheres the fun? I know whats going to happen so what's my incentive to write it?

To make it as beautiful and as perfect as one can. Or maybe your incentive is that your story, though complete in your head, needs, demands to be told.

I find it more rewarding to find out whats going to happen. I view it like going to a movie, which one do you want to see more? the one where you know the basic story, or one where you know every twist and turn and nothing suprising happens?

I would imagine some people would have success with using that formula, but for myself I have to use at least a basic outline. Usually mine are pretty vague, and just pinpoint major events in the story, not nail me down to just "filling in blanks." If I was writing a sci-fi novel or some sort of epic I would think I'd make them more detailed.

But I think that without at least a basic outline many times novels get convoluted or lose focus. Stephen King is a good example. I've heard that he doesn't use an outline for most of his books and I think it really shows. Most of the books I've read of his have tremendous characterization from the beginning until the culminating chapters, and then the endings are almost always a big let down, like he's just tying up loose ends as best as he can with the story he's written himself into. (Duma Key and Lisey's Story are two good examples of this. The build-up is great but by the end I was left saying, "meh.")

It is always exciting to start with just a couple of cool ideas or characters, and figure out a plot. But I think as a writer it's my job to present a cohesive story and the twists and turns are ultimately for the reader's enjoyment, so if I have to know them beforehand to tell a good story, so be it.

But as I said before everybody works differently so I'm not saying not using an outline is "wrong" or anything... I just feel like at least a vague outline is necessary for me personally.

I personally cannot write anything of length without at least a vauge outline. I do deviate quite a bit, but without a basic framework to build on, I can't keep going to the finish line.
I tip my hat to those spontaneous, driven writers that go for days on coffee, smokes and chinese take-out.
I give myself a block of time per week to write. I sneak in more on occasion, but I'm committed to 4 to 6 hours.
Ok, I'm an order freak, shoot me. But make it a clean shot with a sanitary bullet.

I've written one novel already which is in the region of around 250,000 words and I'm now writing a sequel which is so far around 100,000 words. It's taken me six years so far - although I have had periods where I've gone weeks without working on the novels.
I motivated myself because I was absorbed in the world I had created. I knew intricate details about the places, characters, etc and I was always adding to this and this kept me going and kept me interested. Also, I sometimes took long breaks where I didn't even look at the story - purely because at some points I didn't feel like writing and if I force myself to write when I don't want to, I don't produce anything particuarly good. When I felt interested in moving the story along, I went back to it. I've been so engrossed in working on such a huge project that I've found writing short stories incredibly difficult now!
I did not have an outline for my story when I started it - I had a character. I built the story around this character. I just let the story flow, basically and edited out bits that didn't gel. I generally make stories up as I go along.
I have a notebook to keep track of things. I also keep most of my past drafts and most of the pieces that get cut as seperate documents so I can refer back to them if I need to. I'll also highlight certain parts of the story to remind me of what needs changing or what I've considered changing. Most of it I simply just know - after six years I know pretty much everything that's going on!

The advice I would give to you is to have a vast knowledge of your novel. Consider writing character profiles with as much detail as you can (include details you might not even include in your story - you need to know your characters inside out) the same goes for settings. Be prepared to go back and edit the whole thing after you've written it which is sometimes a process that is just as long and just as much hard work as writing it. Also, don't give up! Keep writing. If you find yourself getting tired of the story, take a break or write something else for a while, a poem or short story (I tend not to do this as I prefer to stick to working on my novel but I understand how it can help some people!) It's hard work and takes a long time but it's really enjoyable if you stick at it.

I've started numerous stories and developed a bad habit of not finishing any of them. I'd run with an idea for 10 pages or so, then hit a wall either due to lack of planning or loss of interest in the idea. What I decided to do was get a lot of planning work done, fleshing out the world of my story a little at a time. I'm mainly interested in epic fantasy, so world building is something I really enjoy. I draw up some basic maps, come up with names for everything, work out cultures and magic systems, etc. I came up with my major characters, their personalities and how I want them to develop over the course of the book, and outlined the big events beginning to end. There are still plenty of blanks left to be filled, but I've developed a setting and characters that I've grown pretty attached to, I have a clear idea of where the story is going, and it's helped motivate me to get the actual writing done so that I can get all these cool scenes I've thought up out of my head and onto paper. Seeing positive comments from samples I've posted is also a good motivator, and even the neutral/negative ones usually offer advice for improvement.

I've got 12,000 words done for my novel so far, which is about 40 pages (depending on lines per pages). Seeing those numbers get bigger makes me feel pretty good about what I'm doing and serves as extra motivation. I've got a system where I make sure to get something done every day. Each day I will either write 2,000-3,000 words, expand on my notes, or look over what I've already done. I feel like I'm moving at a decent pace and for the first time am completely driven to see this story to the end. The goal is 100,000 words minimum. I'm hoping to get at least half way before the end of the summer, and finish by the end of the year.

For me, I just sit down and write and spend a little extra time developing the characters. I also have a 'backup project' in case I get bored of the novel. Then I won't be tempted to cut it off before it's ready.

There is no right or wrong way to write a novel. It all depends on the author and their proclivities. Some people swear by outlines. Jeffrey Deaver, best-selling thriller novelist, spends between eight months to a year writing the outline and then only a matter of months turning it into a novel. Lee Child, also a best-selling thriller novelist, has never outlined in his life and regularly admits to having no idea what his next sentence is going to be.

You find what works for you, but here's a little advice from someone who's finished a number of novels: Take it one step at a time. You don't need to have all the answers to the test if you know enough to pass. Likewise, you don't need to know everything about the novel and your characters if you have enough to start. Ideas change. Characters evolve. That is part and parcel (and one of the many joys) of creative writing. Oftentimes the ending you perceived is not the one which makes it into the finished version. You'll discover that little joy when you get halfway through and a new -- and possibly better -- ending materialises.

The first chapter can often be the hardest. If you feel that way, write the second one first. You never know, it might spark an idea for the first. From there, it's just a matter of connecting the dots. You might know your ending. Brilliant if you do. That's half the battle. You just need to fill in the timeline from the beginning to the end. Hey presto, you're done. Sometimes you might not know the ending. This might be somewhat harder. It's still feasible. I once wrote an entire novel without the first inkling of how it was going to end.

Trying to transition from short stories to novels is not the way I would go. A short story is often concise, and for good reason. It's a discipline which requires an author to say more with less. With novels, it's different. Most novels are about progression. Progression of storyline. Progression of characters. Progression of events which stand in your characters' way. It isn't just a case of one short story after another. It's a case of one short story building on another. If I were you, I would read novels in the genre you've chosen to write. Are they written in first-person viewpoint? Is this how I want to write? Does the author use multiple point-of-view (POV) characters? Multiple storylines? When you know the style you want to write, that's half the battle.

I wish you the best of luck with it.

Originally Posted by Hibachi

So I've been mostly writing shorter stories, somewhere around 5000-10000, the longest I've written is probably around 20,000.
I've been interested in writing something in the neighborhood of a novel length but found this to be kind of daunting and could use some advice.

How do you motivate yourself to consistently stick to one story and continue to develop it? Maybe you don't need any motivation?
How long do you take (if any) to prepare an outline? and how in-depth does your outline go?
Do you create your story as you go, or have you figured out everything that will happen before you've begun writing?
How do you keep track of your characters? Your setting? etc.

Some of these questions might seem dumb, but these are all questions that I've been wondering. I never realized, until I decided I wanted to, how much work must go into writing a novel.

So if you can, please tell me what your process of writing anything novel-length is, any advice would be appreciated!

Thanks

You DO have a lot of questions!

It does take a lot of motivation to stick to a novel and write the whole damn thing! I stuck to my first novel by allowing myself to have that second project, but forcing myself to do both rather than abandoning one. As to keeping motivation, my writing partner always kept me to a weekly deadline of writing at least two pages a week. I don't know if that would work for you, but it did work for me.

As to your second question, I didn't have an outline. I never write one down, I keep it in my head and go from there.

For my first novel, I knew how it began and how it ended. There were also about a half-a-dozen other scenes that I had in mind. Some of them fit in perfectly, some of them were discarded as the story went on.

I kept track of my characters and my setting in my head. I wrote separate bios for each of them once it became to in depth to keep straight! At that point, I had no choice but to write a short bio of each character. As to my setting, anything that I knew I might forget, I kept in a separate file as a series of notes.

That's about it. The only other piece of advice I would have is to just keep going. Don't worry about the paragraph you just wrote, you can always fix it later. Just keep going until the end!

Keep in mind, this is what worked for me. Different things work for different writers!

Kris

How do you motivate yourself to consistently stick to one story and continue to develop it?

For me to motivate myself to consistently stick with a story, it has to have been in my head for a very long time. If it just jumps in my head and I start writing from there, it won't last long. I usually adlib most of my creative writing and write from what I see visually in my head. Might sound weird but for me, I write as if I'm directing a movie and I'm seeing the finished product already.

How long do you take (if any) to prepare an outline? and how in-depth does your outline go?
Depends really. The longest story I've actually written was only 196 pages. But that took me like a year to formulate and then another year to actually write.

Do you create your story as you go, or have you figured out everything that will happen before you've begun writing?
This depends on the circumstances. I used to be in other forums where I'd literally make a story based on character profiles that other members would give me of themselves and make an entire story out of that. But then again one story I wrote was completely planned out.

How do you keep track of your characters? Your setting? etc.
I have no idea. But just as I said earlier, my mind works visually so I usually depict the setting and characters from what I see in my head.


hope that helps...