Thread: More on character development, or, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I decided to use those template thingys, to outline my characters. You know what I mean – those lists of characteristics that you fill out, to fix in your mind where, for example, someone was born and what they like for breakfast and why they were imprisoned and all that other background stuff that’s vital if you are to write convincingly about them.

But then I thought about it all some more.

For example, should Mary McTavish be a staunch member of the Presbyterian Church of Scotland or a Glaswegian tramp with the morals of an alley-cat?

Joking aside, what I mean is, do I need to know every twist and turn of the plot before I fill out these templates, or do I establish my characters in my mind first, and then make the plot conform to who and what they are?

I hate writing!

I've read about writers who swear by those templates. I've only once worked seriously on a project long enough to warrant any need to remember stuff about my characters by writing it down or where the finest of details might be important, like that mole on the back of my protagonists elbow. I think maybe there might be times where you fill out parts of the template and end up filling in more stuff as you go along, so as not to contradict yourself further down the line. When writing out some character cards for my novel length project it seemed to me like I was writing by numbers, and I found it particularly tiresome.

To each his own, but a lot of those laundry lists are mainly surface stuff and don't have a lot to do with how characters react to situations, how they interact with other characters, how they express themselves etc. -- all the things that make for a fully realized character. If folks need them to keep track of details, well I suppose that's fine -- but I don't think it makes for writing better, more believable characters. How that's done is another writing intangible, something good writers just seem to know how to do.

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

Joking aside, what I mean is, do I need to know every twist and turn of the plot before I fill out these templates, or do I establish my characters in my mind first, and then make the plot conform to who and what they are?

I hate writing!

There is some concrete details that should go down on paper first: parentage, occupation, etc.

However, there is a bit more freedom with personality traits. Write down a general idea, at least, then build it as you write.

As always, this is my opinion.

I don't use templates myself. I just outline like so:

Dr. Millicent Serenity Wilkes

• 28 years old
• Doctor of psychology.
• Very methodical down to her lifestyle. Consistency is the means by which she makes her world manageable. E.g. Puts her keys in the same place every time, drives the same route to and from work, shops on the same day of the week, etc.
• Interest and pursuit of parasychology after death of fiance.
• Still recovering from grief and loss of fiance (Paul Callen)
• Clear headed and strong of mind. Open mind =/= weak mind. However, Michael will question whether strong mind would want to believe in something without concrete evidence, thus whether she believes or merely wants to believe in an afterlife.
• Agnostic, but a lean toward belief in afterlife, or at least a desire to believe.
• Owns a cat named Noodle.

I review my notes often, so I don't forget an important detail or maybe rethink a detail that may conflict with something other.

Robert S, that looks like answers to a character template to me.

I used a template for my novel characters because it helped me keep things straight in my head and also helped me figure out complex characters I was having trouble with. I've not used one for a short story yet and not sure I ever would because that way of working is different for me.

Anyway, again to second Joe, most advice about all this is generic regardless of the source, and some things to do with writing involve a bit of instinct on the part of the writer. You know, sometimes you just have to figure it out for yourself?

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

For example, should Mary McTavish be a staunch member of the Presbyterian Church of Scotland or a Glaswegian tramp with the morals of an alley-cat?

Thats not what you said elsewhere, mister.

I have used the templates,
most of the time I already had most of the answers.
The template just offers a way to make characters more real or stuff you can include in the story.

I am always including little bits of trivial information. The most recent was showing my MC had ophidiophobia, alot of women do.

I always thought that if your characters are convincing and real enough, they will write your story for you.

I think character templates can be used for both beginning and refining stages. I've certainly used them for both.

I do it this way; if there is a character who I am really excited about, or proud of, I'll usually fill out a bio template for them before anyone else. Even if they have a minor role. This way is more encouraging for me, because I'll actually finish it and feel accomplished enough to start another character's bio. It helps me take that first step.

But finding the interesting points are another crucial spot for bios. For example, I've come across a template that has a ridiculous amount of questions to it. Overwhelmingly so. So I tried to fill it out with a character who I've had since I was 10, and who is one of my best.

....It's going on one year now. I haven't even filled out half of it. Because even for his character, it's too much.

If you can craft your own bio, consisting of questions intimate to your character's and their situations, that will help too. It allows you to ask yourself more interesting questions, rather than the vague, 'all rounders' found on the Internet. Again, I've done this for all of my casts, and when I did try to use someone else's....

....see above.

As far as when, I don't think that matters. I fill mine out when I'm in the mood to, and if something changes as I write, I go back and revise the bio. ^_^

Originally Posted by Dreamworx95

I always thought that if your characters are convincing and real enough, they will write your story for you.

I don't think you're too far off. To me, plot and character development are so intertwined, it's really hard for me to distinguish the two. The character is primarily realized by how she reacts and what she says -- and of course that has everything to do with plot. And I can't write the plot without having a sense of how the character will deal with events. So, really, I'm with OX on this one.

Someone mentioned a character who is grieving -- well, in my novel the MC is motivated by his grief, but that means nothing in and of itself, it's the unique way he grieves that makes the character and it's what drives the plot. Filling out a form isn't going to help with that.

Originally Posted by Dreamworx95

I always thought that if your characters are convincing and real enough, they will write your story for you.

This only works for writers who write from the heart.

Originally Posted by Candra H

Robert S, that looks like answers to a character template to me.

Probably, but these are the things I want to flesh out ahead of time. There is more detail needed to make this character come alive though.

On a general note.

Character templates can be as complex or as simple as you want to make them, just like your characters can also be as complex or as simple as you want. Being the writer, you're the one creating them.

Use an existing template - all of it or bits, or make up one of your own, or don't use one at all. They're not a sign of a weak writer needing a crutch and they're not a prerequisite to complex writing. They're just another tool for a writer to use or not as they see fit. Whatever it takes to get the job done, right?

Anyway, just another two bob's worth triggered by some of the yay's and nay's floating around in here.

I sort of just keep the characters in my head. I keep plenty of notes, but most of them are about the setting. Never tried using a formal template for characters but it's something I've considered. Might help to have a visual reference when making new ones to make sure they don't share too many traits with the existing ones. Maybe next time I sit down to add to my notes I'll do a quick write up for all the characters.

The egg was around several million years before the chicken evolved.

I would find it hard to write a story with a template for the characters because I feel restricted by anything that predefines how I imagine they would behave in any situation. I think that somewhere in my mind there is a template for my characters but I fear bringing it to full consciousness would compromise my style and character integrity. I like to play cat and mouse with my subconscious, I think it makes for more exciting writing!

If you don't write down definite characteristics about a character (or setting ect) you run the risk of getting details mixed up by the end. Sure you can edit it out, but its a big job. Thats were I currently sit on one of my projects. There are whole chapters that need rewriting, because the characters actions and personality are inconsistient. Its disconcerting to a reader to have eye colur change midway. Its a deal breaker for the ruthless villian to turn merciful.

On the other hand having everything written out in advance can make the novel more predictable. One of my favorite authours reportedly spends a lot of time outlineing plot, setting and characters before writing. I knew from chapter two that the dog was the murderer. Sometimes not knowing what is going to happen next can be an advantage.

Many details on downloadable templates are not needed. You don't have to define an eye colour. But if you do specify it be consistient. The best character descriptions tend to repeat key details through the novel, rather then give endless details about their history. Figure out the most significant event or influence, and leave the rest. If you find you need it later then you've missed the definition of significant .

One stratagey I have tried is to note down details as I write. Each time I define something about a character it goes on the list. Works well for me, but only when I am disipined enough to keep it up.