Thread: Help!!! A story within a story

Is there anybody out there?

Hi, I am writing a children's book and attempting to relate a very short story (narrated by a mother) within a story from her child's perspective. I am finding it is hard to get it to flow as I want to describe his reactions to what she says as he remembers them. I find it is hard to pick up the story again, once I have written his reaction, so that it flows naturally. Would appreciate any advice. I am reluctant to omit the story, as it helps portray the mother's (hopefully) colourful and eccentric character - she makes up the stories herself. Hope that makes sense... thankyou in anticipation.

Do you have a sample you can post? It might help to better illustrate what you're trying to do.

dan

Hi Dan, many thanks, just wrote back to you but lost it ... will resend later. Not happy to post the actual excerpt as not that sure of my literary skills...and yes am writing the 'damn' story and am on home stretch.

Originally Posted by Tala

Hi Dan, many thanks, just wrote back to you but lost it ... will resend later. Not happy to post the actual excerpt as not that sure of my literary skills...and yes am writing the 'damn' story and am on home stretch.

"Just Write the Damn Story" isn't a command; it's a link to my blog.

Also, everyone goes through the part where they're unsure of their skills and don't want to put it out there for others to see. However, that happens to be the best way to improve your writing. So think about it, at least.

dan

Ok. I will try again.

I am telling a story in third person. I am describing a mother telling the main character a story about his grandfather, when the main character (Johnny) was a child. I set the scene of the mother sitting down by his bed. As she tells the story, I interject throughout with Johnny's observations of his mother - her tone, dramatic theatrics etc. Johnny is bored with story, in the main, but hangs on for the end bit which he finds thrilling. She has told him the story before.

"Do you know (pet name), said his mother, "Your grandpappy was...." (she goes on to explain in lofty tones, the position his grandfather held during his working life).

At the time, Johnny couldn't have cared less whether his grandfather had xxxxxx for a living, he was far too busy contemplating the fate of...(I describe an animal fur his mother is wearing as she tells story). NOW is the problem, jumping back into the story again, the transition from his observations to her resuming story where she left off.

"Of course", she continued/continued his mother/she went on.."it was...." ( feel the picking up of the story jerky and doesn't flow..all the 'she saids', 'his mother said', 'she continued's'.. I am wondering if there is another way?


A friend told me that Stephen King does this story within a story very well, but he forgot which book, which doesn't help. I have read Stephen King's how to write.. great book. My book is a children's book, well, older children - young adults.. would love any advice.. thanks. My book is set in late seventees, early eighties.

I don't know if it would work, but my initial reaction would be to try writing the story as a single piece and then peppering it with the child's internal interjections in italics to show their separation and, by having separate monologues, avoid the "she continued/continued his mother/she went on." which break it up.

Hi Tala: I don't know if this will help or not. It's an excerpt from my unpublished novel. Tabber is a Woodling fairy telling his companion Aunan a story. They are traveling through a cavern and have stopped for rest. The story teller becomes Tabber, so the style of the story is no longer in the narrator's voice. The rest of the novel is not written with this simplicity. I think that is important. The story within the story must 'sound' different from the rest of your narration.

“It’s a magic power given to them by Gaff. They can appear to be bats, cats, roosters, snakes, even woodlings if they want. They aren’t too good at human form though, because they can only make themselves so tall.” Tabber stretched out his hand and showed her a height just even with his own head. “They can’t make themselves bigger than they are and never into something that isn’t alive. See, kobolds are pretty social creatures, but they’re kind of strange looking to some of us fair folk, to say it politely.” He lowered his voice and whispered, “Really ugly, like skinny rat-dragons with tails, they have long snouts, red eyes, and their skin is all blotchy like a frog’s but bumpy too, like a cucumber. Their toes and fingers are long and bony with claws and their heads have horny points. Gaff gave them shape-shifting so they could visit Above-Mountain.”


“Why did he do that? I thought Gaff made the two kingdoms to be separate. Wasn’t it when the two worlds found each other that the Mineral war began?”


Tabber beamed, remembering a story that his grandmother used to tell at bedtime. Now he would tell Aunan. He sat on top of one of the smooth stones and gestured for her to do the same. “Take a seat and get some bread out. We need a rest and I’m going to tell you a tale,” he said, grinning; “This is an ancient tale from long before the war, in a time when the world was young and the Vagabond hadn’t come.” Aunan sat and pulled from her pack a piece of Glisha’s bread and a small round of cheese. She nodded to Tabber to let him know that she was ready.


“The story goes that once a young kobold child was born to an elderly kobold couple whose other children had all grown up and moved to new tunnels. Because his older brothers and sisters had all moved away and his parents lived in an older part of Gaff’s Under-Mountain kingdom, he had no one to play with.


“You see, each generation of the Under-Mountain folk builds their own city and mines their tunnels, raising their children until they were old enough to move away. Then the children set off to find new rock. Young dragons moved ahead of them, melting new tunnels until they found fresh rock with good mineral properties. Then they would melt chambers for the settlers, deep ones for the cities and high chambers for the farms. But this young kobold was born late and was too young to leave with his brothers and sisters. After the older kobolds left, there were no young kobolds like him in his city. He had no one to play with and was so lonely in the deep tunnels of Under-Mountain that he cried himself to sleep every night.” Tabber made a gesture, rocking his fists on his cheeks, and frowned like he was crying. “No other kobold children lived anywhere near his tunnel. He went looking for a friend but all of the gnomes, trows and kobolds were busy mining. They didn’t want to play and he was too young to dig with them in the mines. He wandered around the mines for a long time and tried to play with the dragon children, but they scorched him. He tried the trow children, but all they wanted to do was play with the large rubies and diamonds their parents had given them. They didn’t know how to play any kobold games.


“Then one day, the lonely kobold child heard laughing and singing. It was such a happy sound that he knew, somewhere nearby, there were children having real fun. He ran through the tunnels as happy as he could be, following the sound. Back and forth, he went searching for the children, from one end of his tunnels to the other. He looked in chambers, vaults, temples and parks. He ran all the way down to the grottos and glowing pools, but still he couldn’t find them.


"Finally, as he raced through one of the upper tunnels, he heard the sound coming from over his head and looked up to see an airshaft. The children’s voices were coming down from Above-Mountain and up he climbed. At the surface, the airshaft was disguised as an old hollow tree stump, high off the ground, high enough that no one would climb it and discover what it really was and the kobold poked his head up to see woodling and elf children playing in a flower field. He had never seen anything so beautiful as the blue sky and the green grass and forest trees and he had never seen anything as lovely as a woodling child.”

“And the elf children?” laughed Aunan, remembering that Hillerian had told her how beautiful a race the elves had been.


“The kobold thought they were homely creatures, not half as pretty as the woodlings,” laughed Tabber. “So! He thought the woodlings were all wondrous creatures and all so happy, running and playing, laughing and singing. So he hopped up out of that hollow stump and ran to join them.”

“Oh no!” said Aunan, guessing what would come next.


“You’re right, when they saw him running toward them, the children all ran away screaming and crying that a monster had come out of a tree. He was the first kobold ever seen Above-Mountain and they had never seen such a gruesome creature in all their lives. They knew nothing about Under-Mountain folk, not even that such a place existed, and thought a wild beast had come to eat them.


“Then the kobold stood there watching the children run away, feeling so sad and alone, that he began sobbing. He sobbed with such force that the ground shook under him.” Tabber stomped his feet making a rumbling sound. “In big jagged sobs, he wailed aloud and shook so hard that the ground spirits felt his cries and they started crying because they felt so sad for him. When the kobold heard the ground sobbing with him he cried even louder. Then with the kobold wailing and the ground weeping, so sad and mournful was the sound that even the tree spirits started sobbing. The trees started swaying back and forth.” Tabber stood up and swayed bank and forth to show Aunan how the trees were moving. Aunan laughed. “The commotion was getting worse and worse in the Above-Mountain kingdom, because once the tree spirits started crying the whole forest began to howl and sway. Woodlings and Elves in the far reaches of Azmerith suddenly broke down and began to cry, not even knowing why. Cobblers, tailors, cooks and candle-makers began to cry. Even the human king, on his throne in his castle high on the mountain, began to weep and it was his birthday!” Tabber sat again and pretended to be the king, putting his hands to his face and shaking with exaggerated sobs.


“Then Gaff, deep in his palace beneath Under-Mountain, felt the quaking of the ground and heard all of the sobbing. He sent one of his dragon children to see what had caused the sadness. The dragon found the child and coxed him back into Under-Mountain, and then he went and reported to Gaff. When Gaff heard the whole thing had started with the kobold child he sent for him at once. The child told his story, with lots of pauses for sniffles and tears and Gaff was greatly moved. He decided then and there that something must be done so that the kobold child could have playmates. He would solve the problem of kobolds having disturbing looks and solve it once and for all. And that’s how kobolds gained the power of shape-shifting! Now if any kobold children want to play with humans, elves, or woodlings, they just turn themselves into cats and if they want to fly up the airshafts they turn to bats.”


Aunan was delighted with the story. She clapped her hands and laughed so hard at all of Tabber’s dramatic gestures that she almost choked on her bread. When she calmed herself, she looked up at the ceiling of the chamber to see if any kobolds had turned themselves into bats and were listening to their story. None were there.

The transition you wrote about of going from the child's thoughts about the fur could be handled by his thoughts being distracted by a word in the story. He has totally missed part of the story so the mother's dialogue starts out ".... last half of a sentence." Then the child thinks again, in italics, about missing whatever was said, then the mother's dialogue continues. Or the narrator could simply say, 'When the child stopped thinking about the fur he again listened to the story and then rejoin the story at a later point. If there are important elements in the story you'll need to break it at the place that matters least. It would be good if you can get the reader to be distracted like the child and then confused about the story because so much was missed while he was reading about the child's facination with the fur. Get the reader to identify with the child.

Wow! Didn't expect such rich responses so quickly. Thank you. I will try both ways and see what comes up. I am now fascinated by your story Woodroam, I do hope you are going to publish, your excerpt was delightful. You managed to tell your story within a story so easily. I am a novice. Been writing this book for years and am told off all the time by family for not "getting it finished", but this part has always irritated me, I have sat at my computer for months at a time, looking at that story within..and have torn my hair out. I am thrilled to have found this forum. i don't feel as alone with it now. I also have a problem with first para.. I thought it was great, but it is not..I managed to move on, and am on the home stretch, but keep going back. I am going to have to chuck it out and rewrite it I think. I guess if first para doesn't grip the reader, they don't even get past first page. Thanks again..will let you know how I go with the story within..

Woodroam, I tried some of your suggestions and it does make a difference..wow!! I am a novice at this. So many questions, questions, questions....! I never knew such a forum existed. I have been locked away in the dark with my little book secret for years!!

Hey Tala, I'm a novice too. I just found this forum and am very excited because there are so many experienced and helpful people here. Even when they don't reply to my posts I learn from reading the replies they made to others. The novel of that excerpt was sent in query form to over 30 agents and I only received three form letter rejections. The rest never replied at all. I'm working on a second novel now. It has turned into a monster project with a massive plot. I love it and fear it.

Please send me an excerpt of your work. I promise to be honest and helpful. I know you have a great novel in you.

I did write a response to you but it has not shown up. Not sure why, I am sure I saw it appear on the thread, but it is not there now. Just to let you know I did respond and will write my response out again, but when I get a sec.

As I said before, I am no authority, just someone who has been writing in the dark. All I know is my family love my work and they laugh in the right places.. but are, of course, biased! Ha!! I think you have a great imagination. I saw another excerpt of your work on another thread. I can only say that many well known authors have reported having many rejections. I saw J K Rowlings interviewed once and she said she had about 12 outright rejections from agencies and tons of 'no replies'. Fashions come and go in writing I guess and, as someone on that thread mentioned, it might be important to consider if the style of books we are trying to get published are not already over-represented in the market. I worry mine is too old fashioned and innocent and might be considered not marketable to the more worldly-wise, media-fed kids of today. I read the critiques of your excerpt and agreed with some regarding the first line. I am always fighting with my own overly-long sentences and keep other books nearby me at all times to see how others approach the same problem. Someone mentioned the "beat" of a sentence, and in my humble opinion, that is crucial in any form of writing. For me, it has to have a cadence, movement, up and down lilt through to the sentence conclusion if you know what I am trying to say. I strive to do that.. and it is hard as sometimes can't get all of what I am trying to say in a sentence and one wrong word and the rhythm is lost. As I said above i am in awe of your vibrant imagination and read right down to the end of the page, your talents must be harnessed for sure. Keep plugging away, I am sure success will be yours.