Thread: Who does your editing?

I know of two members here who say they do their own editing of their fiction. My assumption is that they don't use paid editors. Here’s a link to one such comment:

http://www.writingforums.com/writing...ml#post1389411

A third member has told me such behaviour is “self-destructingly arrogant”. This third member’s other words on the subject were, and I quote, “There is only one ultimate judge of your work and that is the acceptance of the reading public – not your own self-assessment.” The inference I gained, from the context in which the words were given, was that no writer wishing to see their story on the bookstore shelves would dare submit their MS to an agent or publisher without first paying an editor to go through it with a fine-tooth comb.

I’m on the side of the first two. So, are we self-destructingly arrogant, or just naïve? Or could it simply be that we have the courage of our convictions?

(In case you’re wondering who the second member is, it’s Mike C. I can’t find his post on the subject – prolly gone west in the recent clean-up - but if you want to ask him yourself, these days he's more easily found at AW)

I write, rewrite, repeat, then read out loud into a digital recorder to make an audio copy for my grand-kids. When reading out loud I catch many more mistakes than when silently reading. I plan to have a professor of literature critique my work when it's nearly finished. I'll probably stop at that point and make my final recording for the kids.

If anyone knows of a good MFA level creative writing professor who might help, please send me your recommendation. I'm searching for the right one.

I have to go along with the guy who urged you to use an editor. It's not just about finding spelling and grammatical errors. An editor can also show you where you failed to properly explain something. We all use our cultural and our life experience to interpret what we read. No two people have exactly the same set of experiences, so no two people will interpret the same set of words exactly the same way. An editor can show you some of your false assumptions about how your writing will be interpreted.

Google "Book Editors" and find someone who will give you a free sample of their work. Send them five or ten pages of your manuscript. It won't cost you anything and you will see the benefit of an editor.

I've always relied on the editors where I sell what I write. They get paid to catch the nits in what I send. That does not mean I'm careless. I take the greatest care I can but in the field working against deadlines we all know that little mistakes will creep in, no matter how hard we try to put clean copy on the wire. With magazines it's a bit different. There's time for some back-and-forth 'are you sure you want to say it this way?' sort of thing.

Do the best you can to clean up your copy. If what you write is good enough, there are paid editors who will pick out the nits you miss without complaint.

Edit - Maybe I didn't make that clear. Why should I pay an editor? The publisher already pays editors.

Originally Posted by C.M. Aaron

No two people have exactly the same set of experiences, so no two people will interpret the same set of words exactly the same way. An editor can show you some of your false assumptions about how your writing will be interpreted.

Yes, but…

no matter how the words are “adjusted”, there will always be a few readers who interpret them differently. You said so yourself.

So why bother?

- garza, sorry, I thought the wording of my post indicated that everyone involved was discussing fiction. To avoid any confusion, the linked WF post would make this clear.

Fiction or non-fiction, if you are going to a publisher, the publisher will have editors.

Those who are self-publishing either in print or electronically may well see the need for an independent, paid, editor. As was pointed out in several of the posts in the thread cited, novel-length works are not suitable for review in forums such as this. Baron, however, neatly showed the way around that problem so far as critiquing of style is concerned.

I likely won't pay someone to edit my novel before I submit it to agents. But I'm going to have someone read it to catch errors or perhaps any inconsistencies etc. She's also a discerning and intelligent reader with a deep knowledge and appreciation of good literature, so I'll listen if she has any suggestions or issues with any of it.

I've worked very hard on my novel and writing in general, but I know my weaknesses too. No matter how hard I try, I will miss things. So to me, it just makes sense. I don't see the decision to use someone to edit or provide input as having anything to do with "laziness."

garza, with respect, you are still missing the point. The point being, is it or is it not self-destructingly arrogant of a writer to submit their MS to a mainstream publisher's agent or a mainstream publisher without first having a paid editor look it over?

No, it's not. Writers, very successful writers, have been doing that for years. If a work, fiction or non-fiction, has value, the agent or publisher will recognise the worth of the writing, and minor blemishes will not detract from that worth. All writers must have a fair level of cheerful self-appreciation (arrogance) or they would never have the courage to submit anything to anyone. The only way a writer self-destructs is to write and never submit.

I don't know what you mean by 'mainstream publisher's agent'. All the agents I know represent writers, not publishers. Many publishers will only consider work that comes to them through an agent and many agents will not consider representing a writer who has not been published. There has always been a way around that, but few writers see it, and thus many writers who might otherwise be succesful never manage to be published.

I've heard that sometimes when an agent has agreed to represent a writer, he will suggest an editing service before sending the work on to publishers. Such a thing may be common with fiction. I've never had it happen to me. Most of my life I've dealt with one agent, not to help find a publisher but to ensure I got the best deal. Any editing was by people employed by the publishers. I started at the lowest level and wrote my way up from there, step by small step, guided by editors paid by publishers. That's how you get around the Catch 22 mentioned above.

Originally Posted by C.M. Aaron

An editor can show you some of your false assumptions about how your writing will be interpreted.

C.M.Aaron is right. Good editors know how your writing comes off the page to the reading public, he has that experience.

Originally Posted by Ox

Yes, but…no matter how the words are “adjusted”, there will always be a few readers who interpret them differently. You said so yourself.

The editor speaks for convention or the largest common denominator.

Originally Posted by JosephB

I likely won't pay someone to edit my novel before I submit it to agents. But I'm going to have someone read it to catch errors or perhaps any inconsistencies etc. She's also a discerning and intelligent reader with a deep knowledge and appreciation of good literature, so I'll listen if she has any suggestions or issues with any of it.

I've worked very hard on my novel and writing in general, but I know my weaknesses too. No matter how hard I try, I will miss things. So to me, it just makes sense. I don't see the decision to use someone to edit or provide input as having anything to do with "laziness."

I missed this post.

I feel the same way about my own work. When it's ready for outside input, I'll be asking a select few people to read my novel and give their thoughts and suggestions. I respect their opinions and I hope to h*ll they say yes because I cant afford to pay them so it'll be on a reciprocation basis.

Very much agree about outside input not equalling laziness on my part. If I went around believing my own work is so great I don't have to edit or take onboard others' suggestions, I would get very far. I don't do that with my art so why would I with writing? One set of eyes may have all the skill and experience in the world but they cant see everything.

So yeah, I guess my answer to Ox's question would be; no, it's not self-destructingly arrogant to submit an edited ms to a publisher. But it's also not self-destructingly arrogant to assume you don't have to pay for editing help.

I'm beginning to wonder if there isnt a bent towards extremes going on again...

Originally Posted by Candra H

it's not self-destructingly arrogant to submit an edited ms to a publisher.

This was never part of my proposal. I dunno how you manage to twist stuff around.

But xO, Candra H does ask the right question: Why would I pay someone to edit my work?

Publishers pay editors so I don't have to. Publishers also pay me so I can pay the rent and buy the groceries. It's a pretty good system, taken all in all.

It's a conspiracy. I give up.