Thread: Novel length and content question

I am still in the early planning/plotting of my novel.
It's a murder mystery/police procedural novel.

First Question
What is the "standard"/recommended average word length/page length for novels?
How much over those numbers can one go?

I know it's a bit early to worry about those things because the story will dictate such. But if I find I'm easily hitting those "ceiling" numbers, then I may have to re-plot my novel to make a sequel out of it. And if that is the case, that is something I'll need to have planned out in advance before I send out the query and such as I would need to mention that the sequel has already been mapped out ... thus showing my commitment to the books and that I could make a 6-ish month deadline on the second book if required.

Second Question
The overall tone of the book is going to be dark. Naturally the murder is dark in and of itself. But there will also be a kidnapping where the woman (who is a secondary main character) is tortured using physical and psychological techniques of the BDSM world. This is not gratuitous violence/sex, but a needed element for a main character. BDSM is not the main theme/reason for the murder, and thus will not be peppered throughout the book like you would expect it to be if it was the main theme/reason.

Without turning the novel (or at least the descriptions of her ordeal) into a borderline erotica/porn novel ... and to turn away a vast majority of my audience which is the murder mystery readers at large ... how detailed to I go into descriptions without being "too much"? What is the most accepted terms for mentioning certain male and female anatomy? Some of the things she goes through will be described when the cops find the woman. But most of the description will be via her voice (describing to the cops and later in private with the aforementioned main character).

Thanks for any pointers you can give to either or both my questions. These will help me fine-tune the mapping out of chapters, the plot and back stories.

Originally Posted by BEyre

First Question
What is the "standard"/recommended average word length/page length for novels?
How much over those numbers can one go?

The range for a mystery novel is between 60,000 - 100,000. It depends on the publishing houses. Some allow more, some specify less. Your ceiling in this genre, for a first-time author, would be around 110,000. Mystery tends to be one of the smaller genres in terms of word-count.

Second Question
The overall tone of the book is going to be dark. Naturally the murder is dark in and of itself. But there will also be a kidnapping where the woman (who is a secondary main character) is tortured using physical and psychological techniques of the BDSM world. This is not gratuitous violence/sex, but a needed element for a main character. BDSM is not the main theme/reason for the murder, and thus will not be peppered throughout the book like you would expect it to be if it was the main theme/reason.

Without turning the novel (or at least the descriptions of her ordeal) into a borderline erotica/porn novel ... and to turn away a vast majority of my audience which is the murder mystery readers at large ... how detailed to I go into descriptions without being "too much"? What is the most accepted terms for mentioning certain male and female anatomy? Some of the things she goes through will be described when the cops find the woman. But most of the description will be via her voice (describing to the cops and later in private with the aforementioned main character).

Thanks for any pointers you can give to either or both my questions. These will help me fine-tune the mapping out of chapters, the plot and back stories.

How long does this torture occur? How many pages do you think it will amass? How about showing the first few minutes of her torture, using the right terminology and techniques, and then cut to another POV. Perhaps even your police officer. You can show him trying to find this woman (which, from your above post, someone eventually does) and taking hours or days to do so. When he finally locates her, you cut back to her POV and describe her injuries. The reader can infer what happened in the intervening time period. You can still have her describe it to the cop. That's one way of handling it.

Sam,

Thank you for your detailed reply.

Re: Word Count --- Thank you. That at least gives me an idea of "how much time" I have for the cops to solve the crime. Otherwise, I might write myself into another "The Stand" 1000+ page book! LOL!

Re: Content --- I kept mulling this over after I wrote this post last night. The focus on her ordeal at the beginning will probably span no more than 4-5 pages. That is just a guess at this early stage. However, I didn't want to get deep into writing the whole ordeal and then find I went too far and would definitely be rejected for being TOO over the top. At least, with your suggestion (and one I similarly came to the same conclusion on late last night), I have a fair idea of how to approach that event when I come to write it the first time through.

Thank you again. Your comments have been very helpful.

Why not write the scene/s and post them for feedback and let the members here tell you if they think it's over the top or not?

Reason I'm asking is because it seems a strange way to work - not knowing what the scene will involve but creating a page length and structure for it anyway...

Candra,

I understand why you would think it was a strange way to approach the writing process. While I do not know exactly HOW long the "scene" will be until I write it, my page length guesstimate was to show that I did not want it to be a long drawn out, bloody detail by bloody detail foray. But I do want to include enough imagery as to pull the reader in and to FEEL what this woman is going through, both physically and psychologically because, again, this will affect a main character later on and also is part of a major sub-plot.

Now that you brought it up - posting excerpts for critique - does one just post the excerpt without any background information so the readers will understand the context of the scene in relation to the whole story?

Thanks so much for your help. This guidance is what I was looking for as it does help me plan out the details of each section/scene of the book.

Now that you brought it up - posting excerpts for critique - does one just post the excerpt without any background information so the readers will understand the context of the scene in relation to the whole story?

Sure. You can give a bit of context to the piece or let it stand on its own and leave the reader to figure it out. But either way, you don't have to post the entire story in consecutive chapters. Thats not always possible if you have one bit written later on but not the beginning.

All I can say is, go ahead and write the scene before you talk it out of existence, then post it for feedback and see what comes back.

Thanks so much for the quick feedback.

While I will want other excerpts to be critiqued, but one section has me a tad worried just because I do not want to go overboard and be TOO descriptive if it isn't necessary or warranted.

I'll definitely post it when I come to that point.

Just write to whatever length it comes to. If you set a target and it looks like you're coming in under, you might be tempted to pointlessly pad it out for the sole purpose of extending it.

As for your second point, I'm afraid I don't know! Not something I've ever written or read, so not my experience, sadly! I'm sure you can find someone who's got the know-how to help, though

if you are worried about it being too short, The Haunting of Hill House is under 2 hundred pages.

if it is over 350 pages, it had better not get boring in the middle because lots of people will quit on it.

i have stopped reading more books after 200 pages than after 10 pages.

Personally I don't think you should worry about it being too "over the top" because all people are different and clearly many people don't have a problem with over the top violence in movies and books (look at the SAW movies... always highly grossing and the box office). At the same time some people are too sensitive to read about or see violence. Plenty of people of both varieties read books... so really, it all comes down to what's important to your story. If this torture scene is important to the plot then I think you should include it and hold nothing back. Describe it enough to make the readers skin crawl and feel empathy for the character. Make it real, and scary. That is what I'd want as a reader anyway...

What is the most accepted terms for mentioning certain male and female anatomy?

Not sure what is "accepted" by everyone. Just like with the above. Some people are offended by everything, some by nothing. So write what YOU like... in my book I use every slang term imaginable for male and female genitals and breasts... lol. But my book is probably more of a "fun" sexy book vs a dark book. Since yours has to do with police and what not I'd think they'd use more "serious" toned words vs slang.

Hope that helps!