Thread: Self-doubt

Hello everyone!

I am approaching the final chapters of my first novel and find myself suddenly riddled with self-doubt about my ability as a writer. I know what an incredibly competetive and tough market the publishing world is, and lately my head is flooded with questions and fears about my work not being good enough. I find myself constantly comparing my work with others, asking myself if mine is as good as theirs. But of course that doesn't help, obviously my work is different because it is mine, so how can I convince myself it's as good? It doesn't help that everyone around me doesn't understand my passion for writing, or have any enthusiasm for reading books, some have even laughed at the idea of me writing a novel or looked at me like I was joking!

When I read over and edit my work I feel so proud of it, and it almost seems like it has been written someone else, someone brilliant! I suppose I am asking if sel-doubt is a natural part of writing, or if I was truly good at my craft should I be filled with confidence from the start?

I may well be asking an impossible question, especially as none of you have seen my writing. This just seems like a hurdle I am struggling to overcome lately and hope someone has any advice or encouragement for me, or at least tell me that this is normal!! In fact, I think the true dilemma is that I love my work, I am devoted to the story and attatched to the characters, but is this because I am biased?

Thanks for reading and sorry if I've rambled on with myself (unfortunately, I have a tendancy to do that a lot!)

Nikki x

Hi, Nikki. No, self-doubt is very prevalent in writers. We tend to be perfectionists. I started a thread a while back about this very topic. Maybe it will give you a little insight or make you less apprehensive. You can find it here: http://www.writingforums.com/writing...-thoughts.html

What I will say is this: Don't be afraid. So many writers cripple themselves with the fear of thinking their work must be perfect. It's an oft-sought goal but it's very close to impossible to perfect writing. There will always be room for improvement or areas that could use strengthening. Just write. Don't worry about publication, or those people who mock you, or anything else like that. Pay no heed to them. Yes, the industry is tough. It takes serious dedication and commitment to even write a novel, much less go about getting it published. Take my advice and don't put the cart before the horse. Get your novel written. Enjoy it. Savour it. Do not worry about whether it's good enough for publication. I'll be blunt and honest when I say that most first novels aren't. It takes time to hone your craft. I'm working on novel number ten, and it's only the last two which I've sought publication for.

The most important thing is: Don't doubt yourself and don't be afraid to make mistakes. This isn't brain surgery. One screw-up will not kill someone. It'll just make you a better writer.

Good luck.

Thanks so much for your reply. The link to your thread has helped a lot. I think it's a simple case of me getting too far ahead with myself, and a desire to want other people to love my work as much as do (as I'm sure every writer does). I am indeed a perfectionist in everything I do and sometimes this can prove quite detrimental! I think it perhaps stems from the lack of interest from people around me. Not because my writing is poor, but because I don't know anyone who holds any interest in literature, I have no idea where I get it from! I know the only way to discover how good my work actually is, is to have people read and critique it. This is why I'm so glad I came across this forum.

Thanks again for your advice

Nikki

Originally Posted by nikkiwall

I know the only way to discover how good my work actually is, is to have people read and critique it. This is why I'm so glad I came across this forum.
Nikki

Hi Nikki, and welcome to the forum.

Before I came across this site I'd managed to enter a couple of stories in competitions, and my wife had read one or two, but I'd shudder at the thought of letting someone else read it, someone I knew.

I've found there are many people who use this forum, all of differing standards, who have something positive to offer in the way of constructive criticism. People may well read your work and take from it something they can learn. And it is always necessary for someone to read your work who is not attached to it, and give an unbiased opinion.

Read the work of others too, you can always learn from reading, and by leaving feedback and comments on work of others they may be encouraged to read your work.

Good luck with the forum, and the novel too.

Scott.

lol! I know the feeling. A novel is a heavier weight of doubt than a short-story, my current trend, but I know the feeling. I think this is like when kids first leave home. When I was old enough to leave home, my parents were nervous about seeing me go. This is obvious, but translate it to writing. They had been tending to a work in progress for a long time. They had invested a great amount of energy, resources and love into this project. The time came that the work was required to stand up on its own merit, without the support of that which made it. I was no longer editable. Typos, continuity errors and plot holes packed up a dozen boxes and went off to college, and in the long run they made out just fine. Is it good enough? Yes it is. The fact that you have seen it through to the end testifies to that.

While you were writing, you felt good about it. Otherwise, you'd have stopped. Now that you're near finished, you're nervous to send it out alone, but you trusted it once. Displace your nervousness by one step. You once trusted this. Now, don't think of the novel, think of yourself and your tastes. You once trusted it. If you trust yourself, then you already trust the work.

I think self-doubt is healthy. I heard something once that went, it's usually the people who are completely confident, who have the utmost faith in what they're doing or how well they're doing it, that wind up the most off base. Maybe because believing you're already there takes away your drive to do better, takes away looking at your work in a critical, objective way.

Although I don't think liking your own stuff is biased—sometimes taking a look at your own stuff you can't help but admit it's pretty dec—I do think there's a dangerous way of thinking here that should be avoided, which is: I came up with it, therefore it's good. I swear this is the way people think sometimes when they let themselves get away with sub-par stories, sub-par sentences, sub-par names. I think a trick is to realize that some of the stuff we come up with is good, but a lot isn't, and then the challenge is weeding out the weaker material, admitting when something we make is weak.

Originally Posted by Sam W

Hi, Nikki. No, self-doubt is very prevalent in writers. We tend to be perfectionists. I started a thread a while back about this very topic. Maybe it will give you a little insight or make you less apprehensive. You can find it here: http://www.writingforums.com/writing...-thoughts.html

Do not worry about whether it's good enough for publication. I'll be blunt and honest when I say that most first novels aren't. It takes time to hone your craft. I'm working on novel number ten, and it's only the last two which I've sought publication for.

I don't know about perfectionism. Maybe more a case of being capable of recognising the flaws in the work and taking appropriate steps to fix them. I included the link to that other thread because, isnt it about writer's block, which is different from self doubt?

Re the second para. I seem to be hearing that kind of thing a lot suddenly. That writers' first novels arent good enough for publication and that they need to churn out a million words of drivel before getting to the good stuff. Don't know about that either. It sounds suspiciously like more of the same internet advice people give when they're trying to defend why it's taken them so long to produce something "publishable". But, isnt it all relative? One person may take a million words to get the hang of writing while another may only take a few short stories.

Originally Posted by caelum

I think self-doubt is healthy. I heard something once that went, it's usually the people who are completely confident, who have the utmost faith in what they're doing or how well they're doing it, that wind up the most off base. Maybe because believing you're already there takes away your drive to do better, takes away looking at your work in a critical, objective way.

Agreed. That old adage comes to mind; if you have to shout about it, chances are you havent got it to shout about in the first place. I've always found the best writing comes from those who keep their mouths shut, do the work, and let their writing speak for itself.

Originally Posted by Candra H

I don't know about perfectionism. Maybe more a case of being capable of recognising the flaws in the work and taking appropriate steps to fix them. I included the link to that other thread because, isnt it about writer's block, which is different from self doubt?

It isn't about writer's block. It's about fear. To be more specific: Not being afraid to make mistakes and learn from them. If that's not recognising flaws, I don't know what is.

Re the second para. I seem to be hearing that kind of thing a lot suddenly. That writers' first novels arent good enough for publication and that they need to churn out a million words of drivel before getting to the good stuff. Don't know about that either. It sounds suspiciously like more of the same internet advice people give when they're trying to defend why it's taken them so long to produce something "publishable". But, isnt it all relative? One person may take a million words to get the hang of writing while another may only take a few short stories.

I could have tried to publish my first novel, but I enjoyed writing too much at that point to worry about publication. For me, it was never about that. I started writing because I was in a dark place after my sister died and it provided a cathartic outlet. I won't lie and say my first novel is as good as my current one, because the truth is that it isn't. With a good edit I could ready it for publication, though. Again, it's not about that. It's about getting your writing to its peak. Knowing your writing, Candra, you could do it with your first novel. I know that. As I said in that thread, it differs for everyone. You've alluded to that. I just got on a roll where I kept banging out novels because I loved the challenge of starting a new one. Whereas other people might spend that time editing, I decided that it would be best for me to write.

That thread was all about being afraid of work needing to be perfect first time out. All I was saying was to be unafraid of writing a poor first novel; to think of it as a learning curve.

Well, thats cool, Sam, but I'm not really talking about you or me as people. I'm just curious about why you keep saying things like this -

Do not worry about whether it's good enough for publication. I'll be blunt and honest when I say that most first novels aren't.

How do you know most first novels arent good enough for publication? That kind of generalisation is what I'm curious about. No big deal.

Originally Posted by caelum

I think self-doubt is healthy. I heard something once that went, it's usually the people who are completely confident, who have the utmost faith in what they're doing or how well they're doing it, that wind up the most off base. Maybe because believing you're already there takes away your drive to do better, takes away looking at your work in a critical, objective way.

Although I don't think liking your own stuff is biased—sometimes taking a look at your own stuff you can't help but admit it's pretty dec—I do think there's a dangerous way of thinking here that should be avoided, which is: I came up with it, therefore it's good. I swear this is the way people think sometimes when they let themselves get away with sub-par stories, sub-par sentences, sub-par names. I think a trick is to realize that some of the stuff we come up with is good, but a lot isn't, and then the challenge is weeding out the weaker material, admitting when something we make is weak.

You're confusing confidence with conceit - they are two very different things.

Self doubt is completely normal, but just stop for a moment and look at what you've achieved. You've almost finished writing a whole book - I'm sure there are many many people on here who would be envious of that. It's not easy, and you've done a great job to get where you have. Allow yourself some time, grow a little confidence - you can do it!

Originally Posted by caelum

I think self-doubt is healthy. I heard something once that went, it's usually the people who are completely confident, who have the utmost faith in what they're doing or how well they're doing it, that wind up the most off base. Maybe because believing you're already there takes away your drive to do better, takes away looking at your work in a critical, objective way.

I think that this is interesting because I agree with you somewhat, that you shouldn't ever lose the ability to critique and think "how could my work be better?" but at the other end of that I believe that when the product is finished, you should be completely confident in the piece of work that you've created. If as the creator, you're not completely confident that it is the best piece of work that it can be, why would anyone bother to publish/ buy/ read it?

Nikki, my opinion is that it's somewhat dependent on the individual. Some people are naturally, supremely confident, never second-guess themselves, and are perpetually assured of their own success. Others are completely, utterly filled with self-doubt, and incapable of ever expecting anything but failure from their efforts. Most of us are neither - we have natural tendencies towards both confidence and doubt in various areas, hopefully bearing at least a loose correlation to our actual abilities. As long as you keep yourself grounded with the knowledge that your natural confidence or doubt may be off-base (and thus have the confidence to keep working and the humility to deal with setbacks in a healthy manner) you should be golden, except in extreme cases.

Bad Craziness, I wouldn't go so far as to say that you should always be supremely confident that your completed works are in their best possible state -- there are things like deadlines, after all, and often one work has the potential to develop in more than one fashion, all of which could be considered "best" for various reasons -- but I would agree absolutely that projecting such an attitude to everyone you're trying to persuade to read/represent/publish/buy the work is crucial!

Originally Posted by Candra H

I don't know about perfectionism. Maybe more a case of being capable of recognising the flaws in the work and taking appropriate steps to fix them.

That's what it's about. The ability to evaluate your own work, knowing how to make it better -- and knowing when to stop -- is just part of what makes up writing talent.

I don't think anyone can tell anyone else how this is done. It's something a writer -- anyone really -- will learn or come to recognize on his own. Or not.

Originally Posted by khobar

You're confusing confidence with conceit - they are two very different things.

When you cross the line from confidence into over-confidence, you're into the realm of conceit, which is what Caelum was talking about in his second paragraph.

I also noticed a couple of others mentioning extremes above - that people are either supremely confident or completely unconfident, and that people should always believe their work is the best it can be when it's finished. I think the reality is a lot more complex than that and there are endless grades of confidence and belief in a piece of work.

Originally Posted by JosephB

That's what it's about. The ability to evaluate your own work, knowing how to make it better -- and knowing when to stop -- is just part of what makes up writing talent.

I don't think anyone can tell anyone else how this is done. It's something a writer -- anyone really -- will learn or come to recognize on his own. Or not.

Which pretty much covers it.