Thread: characters!

My primary project is a trilogy of philosophical/sci-fi/fantasy fiction. The framework (the world, the plot, the events, etc) is all planned out. I have the majority of my first novel written in varying degrees of quality/roughness. HOWEVER, my english profs and any of my friends that I have had look over some of my material has returned with comments about my characters; basically, they are either too idealized (w/o flaws) or are unlikeable and difficult to empathize with.

SO: Is there any generic advice you all have for developing characters? Is there any particular motto that anyone has found to work?

I appreciate any feedback!

-w. galt

I think/hope that most of these concerns will sort themselves out in the act of writing. Sure, the characters may seem lifeless and bland in your draft, but by the time you've written it, you will have a great idea of the types of people they are. When you do your second draft, you'll be able to add/alter sections to portray the characters better.

I find it too much of a challenge to create characters outside of specific events. So doing the leg work prior to writing is a useless endeavor for me. If I do write details about a character down, I usually end up changing them because something happened in the story that altered their personality in a better / more suitable way.

I pretty much agree with what Kris said. Characters aren't something to breath seperate from the story, they are things that evolve as events happen. I don't really understand most of my characters on a deep personal level, unless I copy paste myself into the story or unless I have used the character before.

If I was going to give advice I would say start with the role the character MUST fulfill. When you know what you want a character to do shape a personality around that. Take an archetype if you have to. After that make the character perfect for the role in every way, just make them flawless. From that point forward take out one lego piece at a time until you find some interesting holes to have in your character. Its sort of a way to work backwards. Know your character then destroy them slowly until they develop interesting mutations that you want to use.

Other than shaping your character around events and how he reacts to them, you might want to try other tools like narration and voice.

I wonder if you are writing your characters as what you consider acceptable to others. Those are the one's I find least likable. You must not be afraid to let the real stuff in. Say things you'd be nervous to say to others. Most people have closets and the authors that open the doors and look in are my favorites. I could care less about mary sue because she is not human.

Originally Posted by aye_priori

Is there any generic advice you all have for developing characters? Is there any particular motto that anyone has found to work?

Put the characters in situations that go against their feelings and beliefs. For example. Let's say you have a male character that has to meet someone at a bar. We want character development so to reveal character, lets make him a recovering alcoholic. This gives him a flaw, creates internal conflict, and makes the reader identify with the character.

Originally Posted by S1E9A8N5

This gives him a flaw, creates internal conflict, and makes the reader identify with the character.

That is, of course, if readers like myself have flaws or internal conflicts or are recovering alcoholics....

There are a lot of human flaws that don't have to be big and dramatic. Simple things make characters noticeable and allow people to connect with them.

Even when friends talk, they have differences in opinion and interest. Here's an example.

Two people at a bar. Bob asks Phil about a weekend get away, just the blokes. Phil declines, saying that he's too busy, but really he cannot afford it and doesn't want Bob to know. Bob offers to help with the odd jobs that need doing, putting Phil in a position where he needs to decline the help and risk offending Bob. Phil hesitates as he explains that it's not really something Bob can help with, accidentally putting his beer down to heavily, slopping liquid over his hand. Phil wipes it across his jumper without thinking.

Phil suggests that it's time for a refill, both distracting Bob (because it's his turn to buy) and giving Phil some time to get his thoughts together. Can he afford the weekend away, or is it really that being around Bob makes him uncomfortable? He's successful after all, and every time Bob throws money around, it's a constant reminder that Phil is less fortunate. If Bob wasn't so damn ugli, Phil might have actually disliked the guy.

---

Anyhow.. putting characters in scenes allows you to be creative like this. When making a character, you're not going to think about how you can represent a personality, but while writing you can let that personality shine through according to how the story needs to progress.

Originally Posted by Mike

That is, of course, if readers like myself have flaws or internal conflicts or are recovering alcoholics....

You don't need to be a recovering alcoholic to understand the characters struggle with it. It's the struggle (not the alcoholism) you're able to identify with. We all know what it feels like to struggle and that's how we would relate to the character. Everyone has a flaw. No matter how small or big. Everyone is conflicted about something. And while not everyone is a recovering alcoholic, you should be able to understand the struggle.

Yes... maybe the sarcasm didn't quite drip, drip, drip from those ellipses earlier. I would, normally, agree with you Mr. Numbers, but I'm not going to do that today.

Everyone has a flaw? If everyone has a flaw, then everyone is perfect. No one is flawed, no one is perfect. A dangerous accusation and I think I just might be offended.

What is a flaw, anyway? Is it the rotting, distended remainder between you and me?

Originally Posted by Mike

Yes... maybe the sarcasm didn't quite drip, drip, drip from those ellipses earlier. I would, normally, agree with you Mr. Numbers, but I'm not going to do that today.

It's hard to "read" sarcasm.

Originally Posted by Mike

Everyone has a flaw? If everyone has a flaw, then everyone is perfect. No one is flawed, no one is perfect. A dangerous accusation and I think I just might be offended.

What is a flaw, anyway? Is it the rotting, distended remainder between you and me?

It depends on what you consider perfect and flawed. It really comes down to perception. It is a fact that everyone has a flaw or what they perceive (good and bad) as a flaw. Offended? I hope you're joking because that's ridiculous. I didn't personally attack you (or anyone for that matter). It's my opinion and there's absolutely no reason to make it personal.

Sean

Originally Posted by Mike

If everyone has a flaw, then everyone is perfect. No one is flawed, no one is perfect.

Now we're getting somewheres.

almost everyone has one flaw or the another, that is what sets us apart if we heve no flws then we are all the same. it is the flaws that sets us apart an example a charcter loves everything and helps old people picks up rubbish and dosent hue=rt any living thing. this is a man who is flawless, ever heard of anybody like him? (no Ghandi, Muhammad, Budhha and Jesus dont count ) you see if every one didnt have flaws then no one could be different. my own hero is hypocritical he never says what he means which is what sets him apart.

Originally Posted by aye_priori

My primary project is a trilogy of philosophical/sci-fi/fantasy fiction. The framework (the world, the plot, the events, etc) is all planned out. I have the majority of my first novel written in varying degrees of quality/roughness. HOWEVER, my english profs and any of my friends that I have had look over some of my material has returned with comments about my characters; basically, they are either too idealized (w/o flaws) or are unlikeable and difficult to empathize with.

SO: Is there any generic advice you all have for developing characters? Is there any particular motto that anyone has found to work?

I appreciate any feedback!

-w. galt

Try running the characters through the Mary Sue Litmus test to see if they're too idealized. Be honest with yourself. It's easy to make characters who are examples of your own wish-fulfillment and to be blind to that fact. I saw a guy put his very favorite mary-sue character through the litmus test and he ended up with a wildly low number when everyone who had read this character knew she should be totally off the charts idealized. If you're not honest, it won't work.

I disagree with the idea that you should forge forward with characters that are not good. Find out what's wrong with them before you write a whole manuscript with them.

Creating characters is, for me anyway, more of a matter of finding out about them than forcing them into a certain mold. However, if there is something about them that really needs to be different I am still the author.