Thread: Teaching fiction writing

Hi all! In addition to being an active writer, I'm also a teacher. One of my students has expressed interest in short fiction, which completely tickles me! He's 17, and seems a bit deeper than the average. I'm leading him through the stages of a short story, trying to get him used to the various aspects that the writer will think about.

I would like to know how you all feel about the information I've prepared for him. By the time I get or read replies, the student will already have this information, so this is really for my own interest and growth (though I'll certainly be passing on insights to the student later). It may be a lot to read considering that these are probably pretty basic concepts for most of you, but I humbly ask to know where I'm falling short. Is anything redundant? Missing? Confusing?

edit: I've edited parts to reflect some of the comments I've gotten. Also, as below, the class got hijacked by other work so the student will be seeing the revised version of the handout.

This is the handout that I'll be giving him, though the key parts are the top-down/bottom-up approaches I list.

various approaches for crafting short stories

There are as many ways to craft stories as there are people, and there is no "right" or "wrong" way to build a story. There are, however, general patterns that most people follow, and underlying principles at work helping writers to achieve certain effects. Writing is, above all else, a craft. Many great and famous writers have written loads of books about improving the craft. A few examples: TS Eliot, Samuel T. Coleridge, JRR Tolkien, Stephen King. Shown below are simple approaches to various aspects of creating good works. Although they are shown as individual approaches, they are really a multitude of aspects that the writer moves in and out of at all times, or even mixes together to synthesize a different approach. Here, we look at them individually only to be able to address each aspect clearly.


Top Down Approaches - these methods are for the planning. Each describes a stage in the planning which may or may not even be present. The degree to which it's present will set the importance and strength of that aspect in the story, and affect the overall flavour of the story.


-Reverse Engineering: start with the climactic scene, decide how the story gets there
-Set Themes: decide on an underlying point or message, list various symbols to build the message
-Set Symbols: list interesting symbols to use, then find their unifying themes
-Set Plot: decide on the specific chain of events that will carry the reader through the story,
-list protagonists, antagonists or obstacles, and objectives
-list important location details
-list major events in acts leading to the climax and resolution


Bottom Up Approaches - these methods are for the actual writing. It is often more comfortable to jump straight into the writing, using only these approaches. If one does this, however, one leaves much to chance. If you wish to explore, these are great to use alone. If you wish to craft a powerful story or deliver an important message you must also consider the planning described in Top Down approaches.


-Come What May: begin writing a character, taking notes on separate paper as you discover details such as the character's identity, the locations, the character's goals and obstacles to that goal, foreshadowing of future events, or events you may want to return to later.
-World Building: craft descriptions of a fictional world, but only as completely as is necessary to provide an anchor-point for the character or characters. Continue taking notes on this world as you write your characters through it and make discoveries.
-Philosophy/Essay: begin writing on a topic, allowing the setting, speakers, examples, etc. to become fictional entities representing real ideas.
-Flow of Consciousness: pioneered by James Joyce, flow of consciousness is either writing the first thoughts that come to mind or (better and more exactly) writing in a way that shows the natural, unfiltered flow of thoughts in a person's mind. This is a very difficult approach to make work as this kind of writing can be hard to follow, but it could also be a fun if somewhat psycho-analytic exercise.

Your ideas look pretty solid so far as I can judge. However much I do them myself I've never really thought about consciously. World building I've done a lot of, jotting ideas for the story, locations, characters, etc. Sometimes particular wordings occur to me which I'll run and jot down just to make sure I incorporate them.

I think one of the most important things you could encourage a student to do is to spend lots of time just writing. Over-analyzing can be a bad thing. So much of a writer's skill and style seems to come from their own self-directed practice and learning, editing again and again. Encouraging edits is probably a good idea. Of course spending time reading also plays a big role in the learning process, showing the writer what's out there and literary devices in action. I'm basically plagiarizing Stephen King from On Writing because this all was his mantra, "Spend time reading and writing."

Editing is indeed a big thing I want to bring him through. The entire thing has been put on hold for a bit actually. He came to class tonight with a late assignment he wanted help with, so we had a brief chat on necessary sacrifices and worked on the late assignment.

A big chunk of the reason for analysis is that I feel he needs pockets within which to contain his various ideas. He has a lot of great but complicated ideas and he has issues explaining them (partially because he's still working these ideas out). His interest in short fiction is more directly inspired by people like Plato and Camus than by contemporary and mainstream authors, so I think that he's hoping that fiction will be a good medium for him to work out and identify his thought patterns.

"If you wish to craft a powerful story or deliver and important message, these must be secondary to the Top Down approaches".

This is exactly the kind of phrasing which puts me off creative-writing classes. I don't mean to be disrespectful, Mr Slugfly, but I've written and finished ten-plus novels and I've never 'reverse engineered', 'set themes', 'set symbols', 'set plot', nor 'listed' anything. Lee Child, author of over twenty thriller novels, has never outlined in his life. In fact, he once famously said that he doesn't know what his next sentence is going to be, never mind the end.

The thing you come to learn about writing is that everyone has their own way of doing it. That's why it can't be taught. It's why, in my opinion, creative-writing classes are bunk. Writing is all about discovery. It's about finding yourself and your voice. It's about not being afraid to make mistakes and learn from them. You're going to fill this kid's head with so much information that he's going to be afraid to lift a pen, never mind pen a novel.

Let him find what works best for him, rather than you telling him what works best for him. Therein lies the joy of writing.

Sam, there is a considerable difference between classes which lay down general rules and what we have here which is a teacher observing and responding to an individual pupil. I am afraid you are responding with a familiar argument rather than an appropriate one. A good teacher is responsive to the pupil, the fact that the teacher has come here and asked for opinions makes me believe they are probably a good teacher, a responsive teacher will not lead their pupil to atrophy via overload.
The handout seems to make the points that, everybody's approach is individual and that not everything you write is for public consumption, some of it is purely for your own learning and experimentation, I can not help but feel you protest too much.

Slugfly,
"craft descriptions of a world that is not our present Earth" this makes it sound as though you are addressing science fiction writers, how about some phrase such as "craft descriptions of fictional realities".

"inspired by people like Plato and Camus" I am trying to think who else falls into this group, and what are the unifying features.

"He has a lot of great but complicated ideas and he has issues explaining them"
This is very familiar, my approach is to make as concise an analysis of the idea as I can, that puts it in order, and gives me something to refer back to as I write

Originally Posted by Sam W

The thing you come to learn about writing is that everyone has their own way of doing it.

And everyone has their own way of reading, I suppose?

It's the means we're discussing here, and we all know there are countless ways to that (singular?) end. Yet, when first inspired, how does one go about discovering those means other than doing the 'unique poet' approach? You search out a teacher, an advisor, someone who knows a little about the art. You learn what works and what doesn't through your own growth, along your own path, using your own judgement. How do we learn language if we don't listen to anyone speak? Oh, we'll find some advice that certainly doesn't sit well and we'll come across those people who add to our meaning of what adversity truly is.

I don't think that providing a list of various writing techniques is equatable to brainwashing. For myself, I also believe what Sam believes, as far as 'discovering the path of the writer.' Concerning the duality between the 'bottom up' and 'top down' list, I don't think that "methods" or their implications (intentions) should be considered as much as the many ways you can construct a story other than sitting there whistling in the dark. Far more importantly, to me anyway, are things like grammar and syntax, which, sure, can be self-taught via reading and editing, but can also be taught by others (and should be).

I'm talking about definites, Olly. "They must be secondary to Top Down approaches". I'm sorry, but anyone who tells me that I must do something in writing, I tend to take what they're saying with the biggest grain of salt you've ever seen. I never questioned Slugfly's teaching ability. Not once. But great teachers don't tell you how to do something. They point you in the right direction and let you figure it out for yourself. That's my point.

This may be familiar to you because you know how strong an advocate I am of leaving writers to their own devices. Mr Slugfly doesn't. All I'm trying to say is: Don't personalise your teaching with definites. The thing about literature is that there are no right or wrong answers. One person's interpretation of a story or scene can be completely different to another's. Likewise with the approach.

I've crafted several powerful stories (and have been told this by people). Some, I hadn't even an inkling where the story was going. Others, I had a vague idea of an ending, which often changed when I got there. There are no -- nor should there ever be any -- definites in creative writing. I'm sorry if that upsets people. There are those who want to believe that writing can be pigeon-holed with rules and regulations. Remember those who believed art had to be beautiful? Then we had the phenomenon which is 'abstract art'.

Bottom line: Point the kid in the right direction and let him find his own way from there.

Mike: I had written five novels before I even heard tell of a writing forum or creative-writing class. I learned by reading, writing, and experimentation.

@Sam "must be secondary" - I agree with you on this. I actually kind of got hung up on the wording there, but in the end I decided to leave it. This is partially because of the condition "if you wish to construct powerful and meaningful stories" by which I mean, if you have something you want to say or something you want to prove. If you want to make a thoroughly enjoyable and great story, you can start with the beginning and finish with the end, and still produce something powerful and meaningful. But if you have a specific destination you can't choose a random direction. I don't believe that writing can be pigeon-holed with rules and definitions, but I do believe it is a craft and art which has tools that are much more complicated than the pen, and methods more complicated than forming sentences.

@Olly "not Earth" - Too true. I was thinking of SF/Fantasy (what else is not on Earth?) but saying "the fictional world" is much more open.
@Olly "Plato and Camus" - these are two works he discussed with me over the course of several classes. Plato's The Cave led into a dialogue between us of the nature of existence and observation, and the limits imposed on the observer. Then, Camus' The Stranger led into discussions of absurdity and pointlessness in life, the nature of emotions and truth, and honesty.
@Mike "grammar" - actually, this is the central focus of the class, which is ESL for Koreans who have moved to Canada.

Thanks for all the comments and advice gang. It's nice to see I sparked a lively debate about freedoms and leashes in writing. I don't know exactly where I stand in the debate. Looking at my OP one might suspect that I side with the leashes, but remember that my OP has an intent to teach, and I can't teach "do what you like" then justify asking their parents or my boss for money. Also I have the intent to help this guy crystalize his thoughts into something tangible, something that he can then identify and feel confident in. Freedom is important to me, as I'm sure it is for everyone, but I also have faith in the principles of narrative, and that people are hardwired to react in specific ways to specific patterns, images, sounds, and ideas. I believe that if one wants to produce specific reactions one has to intentionally provide something to cause the reaction, and whether it's done 5 months before penning it or 5 seconds before penning it still provides the same restrictions...

I used to have a major struggle with my teachers- especially my art/creative writing teachers. My dad told me something I think should be common knowladge, but I didn't think of it so it bears saying:

"Learn everything they have to teach you. Then you can do whatever the hell you want, but you'll have that much more to work with."

If a teacher phrases it 'you must do this' they aren't saying 'you must do this' (well, sometimes they are.. I had an art teacher once who adamant you no 'real' artist ever ever ever paints from anything but a photograph. Ever.) but it hardly undermines your ability as a free moral agent. You can't be 'brainwashed' unless you let yourself be. I'm with Slugfly in this one, awkward wording aside.

So that I don't send the wrong idea about what I'm expecting of this student, these are aspects I'm presenting to him as options, not demands I'm placing on him (although I will try to steer him away from flow-of-consciousness :p ). We had already discussed several of these, and he knew before we even started that he wanted to focus primarily on symbols and themes. He's got a very nifty idea about a world with only one single liquid food source that has been depleted. Now people have to suck through narrow straws to draw the liquid up from deep wells. They've adapted their entire society to survive by sucking! lol! I can't wait to see what he does with the story by its end. Maybe I'll talk him into getting an account here and he can put the final version up for peer criticism!

There will need to be a very low atmospheric pressure for them to get lift over much height.
Sorry, I should have put a smiley on the Plato / Camus comment, political philosophy to the modern novel, Greece to France, and about a 2,300 year time span is quite a divide, temporally, physically and artistically. Potentially, people like ... , makes for quite a large group.

There is a character in a Dickens novel, Sam, who tells the hero that he is teaching himself to read, when asked why he does not get someone else to teach him he replys "Ahh, but they might teach me wrong.". Teaching people to read and write makes them literate, it does not restrict what they read and write, much as that might apeal to some. Teaching some one writing techniques is surely not that dissimilar to teaching grammar, say, one is providing the student with new tools, whether they are applicable in particular circumstances is the decision of the writer but his ability is enhanced by having the tools at his disposal.

Olly, there's a huge difference between teaching someone to write and teaching creative writing. Grammar is based on rules. Creative writing is very subjective. The two aren't even remotely comparable.

Whether it's art or creative writing, teachers can restrict creativity. This is something I've experienced myself.

When it comes to things that involve creativity, if teachers guide, encourage and suggest -- it's all good. If they impose their ideas, it can do more harm than good. That's the point Sam is making.

Originally Posted by JosephB

Olly, there's a huge difference between teaching someone to write and teaching creative writing. Grammar is based on rules. Creative writing is very subjective. The two aren't even remotely comparable.

Whether it's art or creative writing, teachers can restrict creativity. This is something I've experienced myself.

When it comes to things that involve creativity, if teachers guide, encourage and suggest -- it's all good. If they impose their ideas, it can do more harm than good. That's the point Sam is making.

But this is a teaching issue, not a writing issue, the same can be true in any subject from chemistry to swimming if it is taught insensitively.

When someone's teaching writing, it's a writing issue, Olly.

What it boils down to is this: Writing is about experimentation and discovery. It's about finding out what you have to say. Not what a teacher thinks you should be saying. That's the point I'm trying to make. The best way to learn how to do something is to do it yourself. I learned everything I know about computers from mucking around with them. Likewise every other electronic gadget I've ever owned. I learned how to write by reading and writing. Not by having someone stand over my shoulder and tell me what was right and wrong. Nothing destroys a writer's confidence like being told they have to follow certain guidelines, or that they can't use a word, or some other such piece of 'advice'.

There is teaching and then there's guiding. Don't impose your own beliefs onto someone else. That's all I'm saying. He should be left to figure out what works best for him. As I said before, a teacher should point you in the right direction. Getting there is up to you.

It seems a bit like you're fighting for freedom that isn't under threat.

Originally Posted by Slugfly

So that I don't send the wrong idea about what I'm expecting of this student, these are aspects I'm presenting to him as options, not demands I'm placing on him (although I will try to steer him away from flow-of-consciousness :p ). We had already discussed several of these, and he knew before we even started that he wanted to focus primarily on symbols and themes. He's got a very nifty idea about a world with ...

I'm not navigating this ship. I just watch for rocks and comment on how he handles the rigging.