Thread: Need help getting the basics down...

Is anyone else at that beginning stage of writing where everything feels new and awkward?
I’ve been writing a novel on-off for about four months now. I’m only at 19000 words so far and most of that is unedited backbone. Most of the time, I’m conceptualizing my work, but I just can’t seem to flesh out the scenes properly. I lose the ability to convey my meditations when I write, and when I do, I tend to write clichés or awkward paragraphs that aren’t worth any more effort. I end up deleting most of what I write down or store it for later rework (usually by again deleting it).
Also, I find difficulty in just spewing thoughts down for a rough draft. I get to my laptop and can’t do much more than fiddle around (tried a different approach by taking notes… horrible handwriting).
I aim to be a decent writer who’s able to put down a great plot with style. This is probably just beginner’s frustration, but does anyone have any tips on how to get over this hill?

I think you're trying to write with your head too early. The first draft should be written with your heart. Don't worry about how it flows or whether you're using clichés or boring words. Don't pause for spelling mistakes or grammar errors or anything: Just write. The goal is to get the story on paper. You can revise the piece with your head later.

If you write quickly with your heart, you'll get a smooth story that you can 'feel!' when you read it later. Inspiration comes swiftly, and any pauses you take interrupt this process.

I think everyone arrives at his own working method, mostly by trial and error. I don't think there are any "tips" that will be of much use.

That said, I tend to outline --nothing detailed -- and map out things by roughly describing a scene, mood and the essence of the dialog -- not unlike a movie script. This keeps me on track and also allows me to work out of sequence -- so if I get stuck, I can move to something else.

Some people outline, some people don't. But you might try it if you aren't getting anywhere. As I've yet to finish my novel, I'm not in much of a position to tell you how to do things -- but so far it seems to be working.

There is a tendency to think that because you know what you mean you reader also does, it is the difference between,
He sat down in his favourite old chair
and
He sat down, the chair was a "Windsor" design with a high back made of beech with an elm seat. Both woods were mellowed and golden from age and years of coating with beeswax polish. The chair had originally been bought by his Grandfather and was familiar to him since childhood, seated in it he felt both secure and enabled.

This sort of treatment would help both flesh the scenes out and get rid of the clichés, in fact the clichés are a good clue to where to start, try and have an actual thing in mind, I have heard of people writing about fantasy monsters drawing them first so they have something to refer to. Clichés are people's way of making the individual fit into a system and the extraordinary seem everyday by taking away the individual elements and applying blanket ones, you want to emphasise what is individual about things.

Well, as long as you keep in mind that moving away from cliché doesn't involve adding a lot of detail. You could also say, "He sat down in his old plaid recliner." That would also paint a clear picture.

Originally Posted by KrisMunro

Just write.

This is prolly the most-quoted phrase on sites such as this, and also the most misleading and/or discouraging.

There are brazillions of wannabe writers out there who will never "just write". They are people who need to think out every move in their life before they make it. It is a well-known personality characteristic, and telling such people to "just do" anything makes about as much sense as suggesting they can fly. So if your writing style is to labour over every word, go for it.

I agree with all that, OX to an extent. "Just write" doesn't really work for me either and I suspect it's the same for a lot of people.

I do think some folks reach a point of paralysis from over thinking and second guessing. I know I've been there. In some cases "just write" has more to do with not getting too hung up on details and moving on in an effort to complete something that can be fine tuned later.

I don't really work that way -- I tweak and labor over things. I can't stand it if there's anything on the page that isn't working to my satisfaction. I've tried to "just write" and I find it too frustrating. Who knows -- that could be why I've been working on my novel on and off for over three years.

In the end, you're either the kind of person who gets it done, or you aren't. I don't think platitudes or clichéd advice really help that much one way or the other -- including "just write." But that's not going to stop anyone from offering it.

Originally Posted by guy_faukes

Is anyone else at that beginning stage of writing where everything feels new and awkward?
I’ve been writing a novel on-off for about four months now. I’m only at 19000 words so far and most of that is unedited backbone. Most of the time, I’m conceptualizing my work, but I just can’t seem to flesh out the scenes properly. I lose the ability to convey my meditations when I write, and when I do, I tend to write clichés or awkward paragraphs that aren’t worth any more effort. I end up deleting most of what I write down or store it for later rework (usually by again deleting it).

No. Do not delete your stuff. If you're having misgivings about it, then let it cool for a few days or a week and work on a short story or something, then come back to your main piece and take a second look at it. I'm a bit of a perfectionist myself and as I'm writing I find it very hard to meet my own expectations as I go, so you have to let the expectations slide and just write, then make it better in review. If you can't get material out onto a page, then you'll never even have anything to improve upon.

I think you're undergoing the usual beginner's woes. Writing is a big thing to learn and can take a long time. Tackling a novel outright may be a bit overwhelming. I can't speak for everyone, but in my case I did practice shorts over the span of a few years before I tackled a novel. There are many novelists, however, who never did a short before their first novel (but usually had writing experience).

If you're having trouble with basic grammar and other elementary stuff, I can't recommend The Elements of Style enough. If you haven't read it, it's a great all-around English manual.

A great way to see how to flesh out a scene is to read one of your favourite writers and see what they did.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

KrisMunro – very true. I guess you gotta learn to have fun before you get serious in any hobby.

JoesphB- yeah, problem is I tend to over outline and can’t seem to string the ideas properly together. It might be the content, actually. I am trying to experiment with the limits of my experiences and writing. And yes, people tend to have an innate desire to give away advice, which isn’t all bad.

Olly – That’s a very apt point. There’s a lot of emotions and details that I attribute to a scene but overlook the fact you have to communicate them.

The Backward OX – yeah, I hope that tendency to over think each passage isn’t a just peddling around due to neurosis. The key to perfection is obsession, but hardly writing a few hundred words a day isn’t very productive in any sense.

Fleamailman – I always wanted to know why you state your opinion in through a talking goblin? It’s interesting, but unusual for me at least.
What isn’t it about? Theology, psychology, science, the meaning of life and alcohol embedded in a tale of fiction.

Vertigo – Perfectionism is a pain, isn’t it?

Caelum – the thought of a novel being too much to bite off came across me. I’m a tad under-read so I think I gotta do a hard brushing up.

I'm forever amazed at how you manage to write entire paragraphs with one sentence.

I like concept. And the understanding that some people use writing to find worth in themselves, regardless of whether their true value lies in writing. My goal is to provide help for others, as well as fine tune my current skills; for teaching encourages learning. Not that I believe I'm any authority on writing..

When creating this account, my first question was "will other writers use their name or an alias with their account?".
Which was swiftly answered with "their names, surely. They want people to read their books when they're published."
(thus I give away my other intention)

You've clarified my misunderstanding here; some people just love to write while remaining anonymous.

Originally Posted by fleamailman

...so welcome to my world human, now I imagine the next question is either why in the games section goblin, or that other one why remain anonymous goblin, or why that writing style goblin or who are the other livewriters goblin, though more likely you probably just want to know what I've been smoking..."

I only like visiting someone else’s world if I can leave. And yes, yes I do… as well as where you can get some... jk!

You mightn't be quite as anonymous as you think, fleemale.

I'd put you down as a British civil servant or solicitor.

I don't understand the advice of those that say "just write" either. You have to have some idea, direction, or you could be wasting time for nothing.

I am new and working on a few things as well. I never finish them though. I am trying something new this time. I started with a general concept, which I got from a totally differant discussion on a differant forum.

I had a partial synopsis, and a few concrete scenes. I am writing the scenes I know will be in the story, for instance, a girl is trapped in a car inside a cave. I know that scene is going to be in it so I work on that one.

Meanwhile I continue asking people the question that catalysed the idea for the story. I have been getting very good suggestions which is fleshing out my story. My synopsis is longer and I have a few more scenes I am free to write.

As I reread the few scenes I have written I jot notes down as to what I need to achomplish in the scene, and what need changed to do that. For instance, "joe" has aspergers syndrome. This scene should be written in such a way that one wonders if joe has some kind of problem, it makes joe seem "differant". I might make a note to change this in the rewrite.

As you look at your growing synopsis, or "outline" you create scenes, and you make notes about how you are going to "show" not "tell" what is happening. Your note might say, "make sure suzy checks her shoe for crap" when you want to express to your reader that the homeowner is remiss in his yard upkeep.

Or "make sure phillip wraps his cloak tighter" when you want to depict a cold breeze. It keeps you from saying "phillip walked into a cold room"




That's how making an outline has helped me. In the past when I have "just written" I can't figure out why it doesn't seem right. It doesn't seem right because I have not written what I want that scene to depict, and i have not written down how to do it. I use a bunch of scensory imagary in a scene but that scene might be a better opportunity for character development that has nothing to do with the silvery moss dripping from oak trees.

Keep in mind I'm a rank newbie, I'm just trying to finish at least one work of fiction that I have started and I cannot do that without some kind of structure that I can add to. Another benefit of actually writing it down in outline form, or paragraph summeries, is that I can see where to add things in one scene, that adds a twist for the reader, but that I can connect on down the line to something that enriches the story.

For instance, one of my characters in one of my stories, is a physisist, he is a genious in the quantum laws that are involved in a very important device that a group of scientists are going to use to make a great discovery. I started by making him eccentric. Then I decided to make him have aspergers. I added some medication as a way to signal the aspergers. Then he runs out and commits suicide which really, really, adds to the plot, it gives me the reason I needed to have some characters in the situation they are in.

I couldn't have done that without writing things down so I could see it, so I could draw, suggest, ect. When ever you make one change, you frequently have to tweak if it ruins a differant part of the story. I need to see it all at once.



Oh, by the way, the discussion that gave me my idea was:
If you could go through a portal to a midevil or magical era, and could take a carload of stuff, what would you take. Of course everyone would take medicine, it would be a no-brainer.

But do you really think chemistry books and modern devices are going to get you very far? Really? We cannot bring these kinds of things to many parts of the world in this day and age!

The suggestions really made me think.