Thread: I will never critize bad writing ever again.

Why? Let me just put it this way. If not for page after page of non-stop dialogue, for glaring plot holes, for shallow descriptions and a host of other cringe-inducing problems, I would not even have the measly twelve pages of my first novel that I have in front of me now.

Guys, this is awful! I'm a life long reader, I know good writing...so why is my own so bad?? Granted, this is my first crack at fiction writing. I'm actually a professional copywriter by day. But...I just didn't expect fiction to be this hard. For what I'm churning out here to be this amateurish!

Does fiction writing really improve with practice? I could definitely benefit from hearing some success stories right now...like a turning point for the better some of you reached. Because I'm seriously second guessing myself right now.

- Steph

Does it improve with practice? Of course it does. There are a multitude of professional authors out there whose first novel stank like a dead skunk. Not their first published novel, but their first actual attempt at putting together a story. I still have the very first novel I ever wrote and, compared to my writing now, it's a pile of c**p. Of course, I didn't think it was that bad when I wrote it, so you already have that advantage.

1,000,000. That's the magic number, apparently. They say (don't know who "they" are; the Illuminati, Friends of the Earth, Knights Templar -- who knows?) you need to write a million words of c**p before you get to the good stuff. Don't be disheartened though. Just consider your first novel a learning process. An initiation, if you will. Have fun with it. Just let the writing flow, and don't worry about creating a masterpiece. If that's going to happen, it will take time, and it certainly won't be with numero uno.

Success stories? Well, I'm not a success by any means, but I have had a number of good reviews on my latest novel. Which, when I think about what #1 read like, could be construed as a success, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Sam W

I still have the very first novel I ever wrote and, compared to my writing now, it's a pile of c**p. Of course, I didn't think it was that bad when I wrote it, so you already have that advantage.

Thanks, it's good to know I'm further along than I thought.

And I'm glad to hear that practice really does help. It's just perplexing to me that what I'm writing at the moment is so bad *considering* that I really am a lifelong reader, largely of very good writing. You would think some of it had rubbed off.

It could be bad in your eyes, but it's always worth a second opinion. If you feel up to it, post it in the Writers' Workshop and see what other people think.

Trust me, I know it's bad. I don't want to subject anyone else to it! But, maybe down the road if it seems to be shaping up into something actually readable...

I haven't read your work, so this may be missleading.

But to be a good writer takes more then practice. It takes a good foundation of understanding and,
You need to prepare.

Without Preparation you will find yourself rushed, or lost.
What you tell us will be demeaning, and you will mislead us with your message by not fulfilling the image in your head: like me.

let me at it and I'll give you my best feedback ever.
a few report overview.

I wouldn't worry so much, as previously mentioned you get better with practice.

Exactly what is it you find so horrible about your work? Identifying what is wrong is the most important part of improvement. Is it about the plot? The language? Figure out what you need to focus on, find a specific problem, and then see what others do differently that you found to be so much better. Ultimately you will have to solve it in your own way, but seeing what Byron and Shelly would have done in your situation, and comparing it to what Gaiman or Kafka would have done, you may come up with ideas for what will become "The way Stephanie J. would do it."

As a novelist I wouldn't say I'm at the level of a pro yet myself, but I'm not going to beat myself up over it. The less discouraged you get the easier it'll be to keep going and make those improvements you need.

Originally Posted by WolfieReveles

Exactly what is it you find so horrible about your work? Identifying what is wrong is the most important part of improvement. Is it about the plot? The language? Figure out what you need to focus on, find a specific problem, and then see what others do differently that you found to be so much better.

Thanks for asking; I was just outside considering your question, in fact. And it helped me zero in on what's bothering me the most:

1) Too much dialogue. I didn't have this problem at the beginning, until my main character met another main character in the book. Actually, there is little spoken between them at first, but now I can't seem to stop this endless conversation they are having. Perhaps I need to change the scene to get out of this dilemma.

2) Showing how a character is feeling without spelling it out so drily. For example, "He was peacefully thumbing through his book." I would like to convey the character's calmness and sense of peace a little more skillfully than that. Does this make sense? What I mean, is to create a scene in a few deft strokes that helps the reader actually visualize the character is momentarily at peace without me having to say exactly that.

3) Giving more insight into my character's strengths, flaws, etc. An example: My main character is supposed to become involved in an extraordinary set of circumstances, ...and it's just not believable at this point that the character has the kind of traits, is deserving, etc. for this set of circumstances to happen to her.

Thanks again for asking a question that got me to focus on what exactly is troubling me.

Originally Posted by ArcThomas

But to be a good writer takes more then practice. It takes a good foundation of understanding and,
You need to prepare. Without Preparation you will find yourself rushed, or lost.
What you tell us will be demeaning, and you will mislead us with your message by not fulfilling the image in your head: like me.

I actually did attempt some outlining and character development exercises. But then I got concerned that I was doing this to postpone some actual writing. I agree with you about preparedness, though.

Just make sure that you write something every day. If you do that then after a few months you'll be amazed at how far along you've come. If I showed you something I wrote a couple of years ago and then something I wrote last week you wouldn't know it was by the same person. Reading helps, it leads by example, but you need to practise to improve at anything. No body ever became an amazing musciacian by just listening to music and writing is the same.

Editing helps as well. If you know what it's meant to be like then coming back to it and trying to change it to that will be a good learning experience for you. By the time you've written and edited 100,000 words (about 300 pages in standard manuscript format) you'll really be able to see how far along you've come.

Originally Posted by PageOfCups

JReading helps, it leads by example, but you need to practise to improve at anything. No body ever became an amazing musciacian by just listening to music and writing is the same.

That is a REALLY apt analogy. Thanks, all of you, you're helping to talk me off the ledge, trust me. Patience is something I struggle with, and just seeing what I've written so far...I was really tempted to think it's hopeless.

I used to think I really liked dialogue. I mean, I went through a period when I read a lot of Robert B. Parker's stuff and he writes dialogue with short sentences and I got used to it. Now when I see it in my own work, I don't like it too much. Every once in a while, there has to be a gesture or something.

Also...

I think you get better over time. My first stories, even though I edit them, seem amateurish. My last story? It's the longest one I ever wrote (7300 words) and reading it was as enjoyable as reading an established author's story. There were typo's (and I fixed them) but not anything that changed page numbers or anything. It took me a long time to write, but that is mostly because I knew how it would end, I think, and I was bored with writing it. I had already outlined the entire story before I started writing. I had thought it all out.

I think you get better over time.

I'll let you know, though. I an still not published in a professional market. Maybe this one...

Steph
I would say that if your having problems with endless dialog. Which I understand as A flaw and have never encountered:
I would say make sure that you don't instruct a full conversation. ei so and so went on about such-thus-such and befoe I knew it I had to interupt..
bad example but you hopefully catch my drift.

What I meant by preparation is this.
Authors are commonly known for their style.
When creating a style you like (an order of introducing matters, or facts), so that you paint the image as we should see it.
Not just details.
But force us to understand what is important over what is happening, while considering what is necessary for us to catch the mood.
EI. If you want us to learn more about the character tell us how they interact with their surrounding by pressing that these are their impressions via repetitive insinuations. [first person]
get it?

ahaha, postponing. I do that.
Though I was looking for a co-author...

2) Showing how a character is feeling without spelling it out so drily. For example, "He was peacefully thumbing through his book." I would like to convey the character's calmness and sense of peace a little more skillfully than that. Does this make sense? What I mean, is to create a scene in a few deft strokes that helps the reader actually visualize the character is momentarily at peace without me having to say exactly that.

The pages turned in his hands like ripe figs slipping from the branch. Make the object of a state-of-being verb subject for trope. Use sparingly.

for #1 there is something you mustn't forget: They can talk for five hours, but you only need to write the most important parts. Are they talking because it only makes sense that they would be talking, or are they takling because everything needs to be said? If you feel there's too much dialogue perhaps you can narrate the contents without writing every dialogue. Write a few dialogues that you need. If the characters want to keep talking you can work around it. They often have a will and a life of their own if they're well developed, but you decide what to display:

"We regretfully inform you..." read Sammy from the letter.
"Go f**ck yourself" John responded, looking at Sammy as if he was to blame.
Sammy didn't quite know what to respond to this so he simply continued reading Johns letter to him. It was a rejection from Oxford. It was no wonder they had spawned so many writers, dictionaries and thesauruses, seeing as they could rephrase the word "no" over two pages. As Sammy voiced the printed words, John continued to hurl insults at him, even at his mother. Sammy had wondered if it was really necessary, but this was no time to ask John for reasonable behavior, and gradually it just stopped bothering him. After all he had seen John hurl the same insults at his goldfish, it was just a way of venting.
"Well... that sucked" John finally declared as Sammy folded the letter and put it back in the envelope. Sammy nodded in return and offered John the last slice of the Pizza.

That saved me about three pages of dialogue and bickering.
Now go to Blockbuster and get the movie "the son" and see how much can be said with expressions and actions, and then put those into your own words.