Thread: In what other ways, besides online, do you share your writing?

I’m interested in the details of experiences you have, or have had, with other types of writing groups. I don’t mean other online venues, I mean real-life groups.

It was 2004 when I last participated in NaNoWriMo. I had completed it three times before. I was particularly bored that year, and not all that inspired by the coming winter months. In November, I would get together with the local NaNos on the weekend and we'd workshop various parts of the stories we were working on. It wasn't very productive. We spent more talking about writing than actually writing and editing and critiquing. However, I did meet some interesting people - sometimes we'd get together during the weeknights and watch movies or hang out. Those weren't productive times either. As the weeks went on, the membership of the group dwindled. There were three of us left when the month was over. I wanted to keep the group going - we had editing to do next. (A lot of it, too. One doesn't exactly cut through a chunk of 50,000 words formed like rambling, run-on sentences with anything short of a machete). But, one of the girls was just 17 and had to go on vacation with her parents, and the other was a few years older than me who, after mistaking a 1 on 1 workshop for a date, proceeded to stalk me for a couple of years even though I was always very clear about my intentions about never getting together with her. So that was the end of that workshop.

While living out of my car in San Luis Obispo, California, I joined a local writing group. Most of them were poets. None of them were very much interested in the genre I was writing in at the time - speculative science fiction - although most of them gave a good effort at reviewing my work. Again, the meetings were short - a couple hours a week - and with more than a handful of people coming, it's not very productive after the initial 20-minute hello-how-are-yous.

The most effective workshops I've been in (so far) are at universities. If i'm in town long enough - meaning, more than half a year - I'll enroll in an advanced writing workshop. The down side is that I'm paying money for it. But, with ten people who are there - and who have been assigned - to critique your story for an hour and a half every week, I think that it's money well spent. Most of the time, they are young students who are "fifth year seniors" (with that wistful look on their faces) who will go on to journalism, who have mostly dabbled in fiction. But, they have an eager eye for what is and isn't working for the story. However, these university workshops are tending to work for me less and less. It's also a hard thing to be taught by someone (and an attractive someone, at that) who was born the same year you were. It's stupid, I know, but I'm a little prideful in that respect.

I've spent some time sitting in bars with other wire-service, network, and free-lance types swapping war stories, but I don't remember ever talking about the writing itself. I do recall a writers' group at university that I never joined. They were the elite artsy types. Not my sort of people to hang with. Over the past 20 years I've led many workshops teaching the craft of news writing for radio, television, and newspaper.

I've been involved in two real-life writing groups. One was a class at a creative arts center. Everyone had equal opportunity to share their work in a round-table fashion (sometimes written to an assigned theme, style, or genre, but not necessarily) but there was rarely any actual critique going on. People went out of their way to be nice, which isn't always helpful.

The other was more like a club that met at a local, independent bookstore. Critiques were assigned in rotating fashion - each member required to read the work of two others, posted beforehand on a yahoo group. The participants were more balanced in their criticism, but they were horribly unreliable. There were at least three times that I had no feedback because my assigned partner hadn't read my piece or failed to show up. This was particularly vexing because I made an effort to read *everyone's* work, even those not assigned to me.

Side-note: I rarely share my work online unless I consider it a throw-away piece. I much prefer to talk *about* writing or give critique for free than to leave my work open to strangers. However, I have found found a few excellent critique-buddies (and good friends) through writing forums like this one.

Originally Posted by LadyT

I much prefer to talk *about* writing

How much can one learn by talking?

I checked out a real-life writing group and it was rather underwhelming. My chief way of getting offline feedback these days is friends and family. In many ways, I'm more interested in how a piece will strike "readers" who have no writing inclination themselves. "More" is perhaps the wrong word. I'm also interested. Their emotional responses, or flaws that they catch in the logic, I've found very reliable. And after all, the end user is typically a reader, not a writer.

Amen to that. I don't know if you ever visited Workshop around 18 months - 2 years ago, but the place was awash with writers, all attempting to upstage each other with their knowledge of writing. It was enough to make one put one's finger down one's throat.

I've always been most interested in the way a piece of my writing strikes an editor.

I've always been most interested in the way a piece of my writing strikes an editor.

Very heavy piece preferred.

I joined the local chapter of the Canadian Author's Association a couple of years ago. I've found online forums to be more valuable for straight critique but the CAA has proved great for getting 'audience reaction' to the material. I get an opportunity to read my work to 18 or so interested individuals every month. Their responses to the material are immediate and quite telling. Also, a group of us (not all CAA) are doing a collaborative book, a collection of related stories of which my 'Nicki Belfry at the Raven' is one. Another benefit of live interaction is the chance to meet writing buddies- friends you can bounce stuff off or have a coffee with and talk writing. Bottom line, I think, is to take the opportunity to read in public. Audience reaction is a reliable barometer of how good your stuff is.

I have just finished the second draft of my novel.

As this was the second time around I sat down with my friend and mentor (Chapter by Chapter) and reviewed all aspects of the story.

We reviewed grammar, typos, and whether the story was staying on track. Again done chapter by chapter face to face.

The third time around I am printing off two copies, one for him, one for me.

We will both read it cover to cover, red pen in hand, and after that I'll see about selling it.

He is a published author, eight historical books to his credit.

Aside from that I have written correspondance pieces when I was in the army. I wrote movie reviews for a small town paper and was a columnist for a Veterans' Newsgroup I founded in the 90's.

As for discussing writing craft, beyond my mentor and frustrated teachers, my exposure to discussion about writing has been primarily within the forum arena. Which, by the way, was nearly a short lived endeavor, because my first writing forum exposure was to pompous-know-it-alls who could not see past the mechanics and embrace the art of writing. (It is an art in my opinion)

I am 45 years old, been out of school 24 years, my grammar is not Uniniversity Calibre, so I'm not exactly Steinbeck or Hemingway.

What you see is what you get, in my case, a burger and fries. If that suits your taste, chow down.

Mark

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

the place was awash with writers, all attempting to upstage each other with their knowledge of writing

Competitiveness can get in the way of honesty. Depends on the people. Compared to when I first came here, I think I've learned a lot about how to give reasonable feedback that is less about me and more about the piece. And this is the perfect environment for learning how to give and receive feedback.

I think writing groups are a very important part of a writer's journey. Yes, there's chance you might make connections or be able to network about your work. More importantly, workshopping and listening to critical feedback on your work will teach you to face the fact that there's always room for improvement and where those opportunities for improvement are in your work.

I find that many writers, including myself, are sometimes blind or in denial of their own shortcomings; they want to think that what they have is just raw talent and that their gift is what's going to carry them to fame. It's just not the case. The reality is that it takes intense work and years of practice. Practicing and improving is difficult to do without feedback and direction from people who have been at it longer. Join a group and open yourself up to criticism. Take all in, determine what's valuable criticism and what's not, and then get back to the desk and improve. That's my two cents anyway.

I find that many writers, including myself, are sometimes blind or in denial of their own shortcomings; they want to think that what they have is just raw talent and that their gift is what's going to carry them to fame. It's just not the case. The reality is that it takes intense work and years of practice. Practicing and improving is difficult to do without feedback and direction from people who have been at it longer. Join a group and open yourself up to criticism. Take all in, determine what's valuable criticism and what's not, and then get back to the desk and improve. That's my two cents anyway.

Well said.

A lot of effort is required, that's true enough, and feedback is essential, but the useful feedback is from editors who know best how a piece should be written to suit their publications. Those are the people I've listened to from the beginning, and that may be one reason I've never gone hungry.