When is too much enough?

**Dewgee** · 08-20-2010, 09:43 AM

Well here's the thing. How many times do you have read your work over and over again before enough is enough... I mean how much detail and fixing and editing do you really need. I'll write a chapter or two and it'll be fine... then I'll spend the next couple weeks just going over it again and again when I should just focus on expanding the story because I already know where I want to go, but I just am trying to hard to make everything perfect. And what the hell even is perfect? There is no such thing... jesus just driving me mad and thought I'd rant and that's all... spend so much time focusing on the detail and things like that and I forget why i even started writing in the first place... maybe I don't need any answers I already know all the problems in advance... but what do you guys do when you get in that situation if you even do?

**Like a Fox** · 08-20-2010, 09:48 AM

I made the decision with my novel that I'm just going to spew it all out, then go back and do all the fixing later. Because who knows, you might spend days, weeks, perfecting a scene or a chapter, and then later, realise that that scene needs to go. Why waste your time?

Get from A to B, then clean up the mess you made on the way, is what I say.

**Dewgee** · 08-20-2010, 10:02 AM

That's what I need to do I've realized... I'm so concerned on developing the characters and getting everything straight that it's hindering, It's better to have a story written out and then just mold it from there... it's just getting there and impatience... I see everything vividly but when it comes down to it I just get stuck on the trivial details and before I know it it's not enjoyable anymore and that's when i have to stop. I think I'm just going to try writing... and letting it go from there, but it's kind of a problem when you're writing an intricate novel (which by the way is never the intent when I start out it just always develops that way). Either way i'm getting it done one way or another, better to enjoy it.

**garza** · 08-20-2010, 12:55 PM

See my signature.

**J.R. MacLean** · 08-20-2010, 12:56 PM

I've been working on my novel literally for years, though more intensely for the last two or so. I could have saved myself loads of time by learning about literary structure earlier on. The result? Wonderfully written, finely edited chapters that had to be chucked because they ultimately didn't fit with the plot or theme of what the book became. Google 'story in literary fiction' or 'William H. Coles' for excellent information on structuring a novel.

**Motley** · 08-20-2010, 01:08 PM

I don't think there ever is perfection when it comes to things like writing or art. Conversely, I think that ever final draft is perfect, because that is the way it has to be. Eventually, the writer just has to submit themselves and their story to outside authority for validation.

Be proud of "that's as good as I can possibly make it" and move on.

(Oh boy, is it ever tough though.)

**Sam W** · 08-20-2010, 01:26 PM

I don't understand why you would need to read someone's interpretation on how to structure a novel. I'm not trying to be disparaging, but it isn't rocket science. You have a beginning, a middle, and an end. The rest of the novel is the stuff that comes in between.

Sometimes I think people over-complicate the whole process. They start to put barriers in their way before they've written the first chapter. "How long is a chapter?" "Can I have a prologue?" "Do I need to have my MC in the first chapter?" "Can I show a flashback in the first chapter?" "Is it okay to have different plot-lines in the first chapter?"

You're making it more difficult than it needs to be. Just write the flamin' thing.

**J.R. MacLean** · 08-20-2010, 01:52 PM

I don't understand why you would need to read someone's interpretation on how to structure a novel. I'm not trying to be disparaging, but it isn't rocket science. You have a beginning, a middle, and an end. The rest of the novel is the stuff that comes in between.

You need a coherent plan to build, say, a chest of drawers. Is a novel more or less complicated than that? Why do great artists leave behind innumerable sketches and drawings of their sculptures or paintings? Why do they have art schools? I mean any child can draw, right?

The way I see it, lots of people can write. They can string sentences together, evoke a scene, get into telling a story and seeing where it goes. But without an overall vision ie. theme and structure, it is easy wander down dead end passageways. I'm just saying for my next novel, I'm going to look at overall structure first, lay it out, then write out the first draft beginning to end. Then, as LAF suggests, worry about perfecting things. I began thinking as you do, but bitter experience has taught me otherwise.

**Sam W** · 08-20-2010, 02:04 PM

A novel is as complicated as you want to make it.

I've never laid out a novel in my life, and I've finished seven and I'm working on #8. All of them are coherent, they follow a logical progression, and they are all good stories. So I've been told. I think your way works for you, but that's not to say that everyone needs to follow that path. Some people just have a knack for doing something. Someone with a vision and a good hand can build a chest of drawers without needing to follow an instruction book. Likewise, someone who is naturally gifted at telling stories can write them without needing to follow a "layout".

**JosephB** · 08-20-2010, 02:23 PM

Well, we see this all the time, don't we? How to get it done? Well, I think by trial and error, people discover their own working method. People can suggest, but no one can tell you how to do it. You either figure it out and write the novel, or you don't.

**thewordsmith** · 08-20-2010, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Dewgee

I'll write a chapter or two and it'll be fine... then I'll spend the next couple weeks just going over it again and again when I should just focus on expanding the story because I already know where I want to go, but I just am trying to hard to make everything perfect.

Dewgee, you already know what your problem is and how to fix it. Your problem is internal. It's not easy for some people to just keep moving through. But you know, once you get to the end of the story, it still won't be finished. You will go back to re-edit, proofread, and polish some more. The trick is to find some way to keep yourself on task - the task of completing the novel, that is.

You know, that is the very reason agents won't take on unfinished works by unpubbed authors. Too often, those magnificent stories never get finished. So understand that, by obsessing over each chapter as you go is actually undermining your overall goals. (Unless, of course, your goal is not to get published but just to write a fun story for your own amusement.)

Originally Posted by Dewgee

... maybe I don't need any answers I already know all the problems in advance... but what do you guys do when you get in that situation if you even do?

I can tell you that I keep more than one project available to me at any given time. I work on this one until I hit a wall with it then move to another until the wall moves and I run into it again with another project. I DO re-read parts of a manuscript that I have already finished but, mostly, for clarity and continuity for future chaps.
But bear in mind, everyone approaches the challenge differently. I don't generally have problems with overwriting chapter by chapter. (No. I have other issues!) For you, the things that don't bother some others have become problematic. As you have already noted in your original post, you do know your problems and the issues you need to address. You're just not sure how to tackle the monster in your closet - and you don't want to lock the closet because there is magic in there!
You need to find a way to set specific goals for each day you write. "I will complete ten new pages of ms today" ... "I will finish another chapter before I go to bed tonight" ... "I will keep moving the storyline forward and not try to perfect what I've already written."

Sometimes, little notes of affirmation and encouragement tacked to your computer screen or wall can help to keep you focused and on target. Sometimes, too many outside distractions help to pull you away from your goal. Sometimes, it is an internal demon, something inside that makes you wonder if you're really good enough that pushes you back to what you've already done. Don't be satisfied with what you've already written. It amounts to little or nothing if you don't finish. (Somethng like sex without orgasm.) So finish already! Then you can go back and figure out where you need to fine-tune it.

Good luck and keep us posted.

**Dewgee** · 08-21-2010, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by J.R. MacLean

I've been working on my novel literally for years, though more intensely for the last two or so. I could have saved myself loads of time by learning about literary structure earlier on. The result? Wonderfully written, finely edited chapters that had to be chucked because they ultimately didn't fit with the plot or theme of what the book became.

That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid, but I'm also finding that the longer I take trying to get everything down to the last detail that you kind of lose sight of the original goal and that in itself can cause the story to become scattered. Better I think to just get it all out while it's still fresh in the mind... I've thought of writing a timeline or something but part of my problem is I don't have all the time in the world and that's time i could spend actually writing... now to actually get down to doing it though. Whatever works though, thousands of writers have written novels only to scrap the story at the very end and find that they pretty much have to rewrite the whole thing over, blows, but it a process and I guess I'm still trying to figure mine out. Hope everything works out with your story man, I know it sucks when you find out that the paragraph or chapter that was brilliant or that you just loved has to go. I'm finding out that you have to be willing to part with anything.

**Dewgee** · 08-21-2010, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Sam W

You're making it more difficult than it needs to be. Just write the flamin' thing.

Damn skippy... should be writing right now.

**Dewgee** · 08-21-2010, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by JosephB

Well, we see this all the time, don't we? How to get it done? Well, I think by trial and error, people discover their own working method. People can suggest, but no one can tell you how to do it. You either figure it out and write the novel, or you don't.

I'm all for the figuring out.

**Dewgee** · 08-21-2010, 07:26 AM