Thread: another dialogue question.

For my work involving predominantly dialogue.

I'm trying to imply action and movement without actually writing it down. I'm not sure how good of a job I'm doing.

Example.

In this particular sentence I'm implying that my character has just finished a phone conversation with a friend and hung up and then proceeded to complain to himself.

'Goodbye, Nate. That man can be a pain sometimes...'

As far as implying that he's put the phone down after the period, I'm not happy with that. Is there a better way to do that, without actually breaking the dialogue and writing 'said Ben, hanging up' or something to that effect?

Sure.
I generally find that the most useful way to do dialog is broken up with action lines.

'Goodbye, Nate," he said sweetly, then slammed his phone shut. "That man can be a pain sometimes...'

"Goodbye, Nate." He stared at the phone before pocketing it. "That man can be a pain sometimes..."

Is it possible to exclude the dialogue tag altogether? That's what I'm really trying to do. I know it's kind of restrictive but that's the kind of style I'm approaching - the idea that you were eavesdropping on a conversation without seeing it... hence the omission of actions.

I should really post up a sample sometime soon.

What lin said is generally how I do it, too. If you want to be rid of everything but dialogue you have to imply things even more carefully.

When I read: 'Goodbye, Nate. That man can be a pain sometimes...' It sounds like your character is still talking to Nate. I assumed he was saying goodbye and then tagging on a comment about a third party.

Break it up with punctuation: 'Goodbye, Nate.' That man can be a pain sometimes.
Here the parts in quotes are spoken aloud, the commentary on what the character thinks of Nate is not spoken.

However, you wanted to have the character muttering the second part to himeself. With no tags, no action, no anything to break it up this is going to be confusing. You could try:
'Goodbye, Nate.'

'That man can be a pain sometimes.'

I'm not a huge fan of using ellipses as they are more properly used in writing to show that something has been left out. For instance if you wrote the other side of the phone call when the call was breaking up. For example:
'...doesn't have a clue! And...said that you...consequences of your...breaking up, I'll...can you hear me?'

Really, attempting to write it all as dialogue is a great exercise but it is a pain. Toss in a few tags or action lines sparingly if you just can't get it to be clear otherwise. That is what they are for.

Hm.

I'm leaning towards that paragraphing idea, Foxee.

How effective do you think it'll be? I mean, is the implication of hanging up the phone strong enough? Can I get away with it?

Also, on the note of punctuation - I'm not sure if you meant to close those quotes after the first sentence. I though if speech was continued by the same person, that wouldn't be necessary in a new paragraph? Or is it way too confusing altogether.

Excerpt from said conversation.
***

'Hello, can I speak to Nate please?'

'This is him.'

'Nate, what exactly does your god sound like?'

'Oh. My. Word. It happened, didn't it?'

'Nothing happened.'

'I can't even see you and I can tell you're lying. He -'

'Look, nothing happened. I just had a weird dream.'

'Then why on earth are you calling me first thing in the morning with a question that no human being on this planet would ever guess would come from your -'

'Stop being smart. I'm just -'

'What did He say to -'

'Look, he didn't say anything, okay? There is no "he". Nothing happened. Forget I said anything.'

'Ben.'

'What?'

'I told you so.'

'Goodbye, Nate. That man can be such a pain sometimes. (etc) .. .. ..

***

Also in an earlier question some time ago I mentioned the idea of dialogues sort of trampling over each other and this is one of those examples with the sentences being cut off a lot. How's that working you think?

K3, I'm going echo what lin said above. In order to make it clear that the statement "that main can be such a pain" is not said to Nate, there needs to be some kind of a break. Action without a dialogue tag is fine, as long as the action makes it clear that the other character is no longer on the phone.

"Goodbye, Nate." He hung up. "That man can be such a pain sometimes."

Or, if you're in the other characters POV, then "that man could be such a pain" could simply be an unspoken thought, which might be more realistic if no one else is around to hear the statement.

"Goodbye, Nate." He hung up. That man could be such a pain sometimes.

Just a couple suggestions to think about.

Is it possible to exclude the dialogue tag altogether?

Of course. And often the best way to go. Especially with a conversation ping-ponging back and forth.

You can exclude quotations marks if you want. I've read several books with no marks on dialogue at all. Doesn't seem to be a problem. In fact the last one I read I didn't even notice it right away.

As Julianne has pointed out, you need clarity. By not using dialogue tags or action lines you are kind of breaking rules already, right? So you are almost going to have to think of this in a different way than prose (even though it is prose). If you're going to avoid using prose tools then you have to use visual tools, rhythmic tools, really watch your words within the dialogue and use them to push the actions that you want. Breaking the line into two isn't technically correct because one speaker is still speaking but in the name of clarity you can break it apart visually (like poetry) to direct the reader.

I thought the dialogue wasn't bad and having the two speakers trample the ends of each others' sentences is true to life, especially when it's a stressful subject and they're metaphorically elbowing each other out of the way to express their opinions or concerns.

I'll dig up a dialogue-only piece that I wrote and I'll put it on my blog for you to look at. Maybe you'll get some ideas, maybe you'll just get a chuckle out of it but either way I'll find it for you.

Here it is: A Little Dark Humor

By "prose" she means "non-fiction". The rules of style (as in style manuals, etc) don't apply to fiction. Simple as that.
You've got grammar and spelling (although you can fiddle with that if you want, as well) and you've got a vague canon that's something like, "If it sucks too bad, nobody will want it". But the rules that apply to English essays, newspaper articles, business reports, etc, do not apply to fiction. Absolutely not.

That's pretty much what I meant. Although if the piece is submitted for publication a lot will depend on the editor one subs to whether they see such style rules as being applicable. In a case like this if the editor wanted the author to edit to toe the lines in the style books and it would wreck the piece to do it, the author can assume either that the editor didn't get it or that the author missed the mark and the piece doesn't stand strongly enough on its own.

I don't think it would break the action too much by including dialogue tags, but if you're really trying to avoid it, you could always do this:

"Goodbye, Nate." That man can be a pain sometimes.

The italics would signify that the character is thinking rather than speaking.

Just a suggestion.

Thing is, though, it doesn't require the italics to make that clear. What else would that sentence be?

Well, if it was written in first person then you're definitely right, because it would make sense if the narrator is the one speaking to Nate.

But if it was in third person, then maybe k3ng wants it to be clear that it's the character who's saying "that man can be a pain sometimes," not any kind of narrator. Plus I've seen in many books the italics used to indicate that the main character is thinking.

You're right of course, I just thought the italics would make it unquestionably the character's thoughts. Maybe I'm just over thinking it

Firstly, Foxee, I love the banter. It's great!

I'm being really anal about my concept approach this time around and I'm avoiding any kind of written thought or narration during the dialogue chapters. I know it's like digging myself into a ditch. Everything is spoken word.

Maybe I should rethink the defining lines of my concept to accommodate such happenings.

Then again, this is starting to get me thinking. How do you imply in writing that someone is speaking out loud to themselves? My brain is dead for examples right now. I'm sure I've come across some before, but I just can't think of it.

*To make the idea of the concept a little clearer, this piece is attempting to simulate a third person POV, listening in on conversations built around the main Character - Ben - who occasionally talks to himself too. Certain chapters between the conversations act as 'breaks' for Ben's thoughts and the entire chapter would be a narrative written by Ben. And then the other chapters would be distinctly dialogue between Ben and whoever. There is also an entire chapter with Ben talking to himself. I'm putting that in the workshop section soon. Bear with me.

You're setting really narrow parameters for this which I think is really good! It makes you think and work at it. One risk with internal thoughts expressed as spoken word is that your character may start to sound like he's got a severe mental condition.

Keep working at it because at the best you amaze yourself and end up with a piece that works. At worst you have to reluctantly give in further down the line and add things you aren't accepting now. In either case you could end up with something you really like.