Thread: Dialogue Tags

My editor is having problems with the dialogue tags I used in my novel. He’s struggled with the writing style manual and discussions with other editors. I can see his problem and wonder if I, as the author, should make some changes so that such problems are moot.

Here are two examples. Joe is the story teller. The quotes indicate him speaking. But, I wonder if there’s a better way to do this to delete quotes, both single and double.

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“Once, long ago,” Joe said, “Coyote decided to take a wife but didn't know whom to choose.”

“’Why not take the wife of Hawk Chief?” ?’ Bat said, for Hawk Chief had not been seen for many days. “Perhaps he is not returning.”


“When Hawk Chief returned several days later, he became angry at Bat for giving such ill-considered advice. He picked Bat up and slung him with full force into a juniper bush.


“Poor Bat hung upside down in the bush, caught by his long, pointy-toed moccasins. He twisted and he turned. However much he struggled, he could not get free.”


With a grin, Joe finished, “And from that time on, bats hang upside down - even when they sleep.”
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Possibility?

“Once, long ago,” Joe said, “Coyote decided to take a wife but didn't know whom to choose.”

Joe explained that Bat asked, “’Why not take the wife of Hawk Chief? Hawk Chief has not been seen for many days. Perhaps he is not returning.?

“When Hawk Chief returned several days later, he became angry at Bat for giving such ill-considered advice. He picked Bat up and slung him with full force into a juniper bush.


“Poor Bat hung upside down in the bush, caught by his long, pointy-toed moccasins. He twisted and he turned. However much he struggled, he could not get free.”


With a grin, Joe finished, “And from that time on, bats hang upside down - even when they sleep.”

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Next example -

When Ray didn’t say anything more, Joe continued the story.

“Long ago, Killer-of-Enemies vowed to save his people from the terror of monster eagles that roamed the skies and carried off children. Killer-of-Enemies tricked one monster eagle into carrying him up to the eagle nest on the cliff where he killed the monster eagle and its family.”

“Killer-of-Enemies didn't know how to get down from the cliff. Just then, he saw an old woman approaching. It was Old Woman Bat.

“Killer-of-Enemies called out. “’Grandmother, help me. Take me down.” .’

“Old Woman Bat looked all around but didn't see him.

“Killer-of-Enemies called out again,. and again... and again.

“Finally, Old Woman Bat saw him high in the eagle's nest. She came over to the cliff and began to climb. “’What are you doing here?” ?’ she asked when she reached the top.

“’Monster Eagle carried me up here. Please take me down.”.’

“’Climb in my basket,” ,’ Old Woman Bat told him.

“Killer of Enemies looked at the burden basket on the old woman's back. Its carrying strap was made of spider's silk.

“’That strap is too fine,” ,’ he said. “’It will break and I shall fall.”.’

“’Nonsense! I've carried a bighorn sheep in this basket,” ,’ Old Woman Bat glared at him “’Get in and close your eyes. If you look, we will fall.”.’

“Old Woman Bat clambered down the rock, singing a strange song. Her burden basket swayed wildly from side to side.

“Killer-of-Enemies thought the spider thread would surely break, so he opened his eyes to look.

“As soon as Kill-of-Enemies opened his eyes, he and Old Woman Bat crashed down from the cliff.

“Old Woman Bat landed first and broke her legs.

“Killer-of-Enemies fell on top of her and was safe.

“Old Woman Bat's broken legs soon mended, but from that day on her legs were short.”

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Next possibility -

When Ray didn’t say anything more, Joe continued the story.

“Long ago, Killer-of-Enemies vowed to save his people from the terror of monster eagles that roamed the skies and carried off children. Killer-of-Enemies tricked one monster eagle into carrying him up to the eagle nest on the cliff where he killed the monster eagle and its family.”

“Killer-of-Enemies didn't know how to get down from the cliff. Just then, he saw an old woman approaching. It was Old Woman Bat.”

Joe then said that Killer-of-Enemies called out. “Grandmother, help me. Take me down.”

“Old Woman Bat looked all around but didn't see him.

“Killer-of-Enemies called out again,. and again... and again.

Joe told them that finally, Old Woman Bat saw him high in the eagle's nest. She came over to the cliff and began to climb. “What are you doing here?” she asked when she reached the top.

“Monster Eagle carried me up here. Please take me down.”

“Climb in my basket,” Old Woman Bat told him.

“Killer of Enemies looked at the burden basket on the old woman's back. Its carrying strap was made of spider's silk.

“’That strap is too fine,” ,’ he said. “’It will break and I shall fall.”.’

“’Nonsense! I've carried a bighorn sheep in this basket,” ,’ Old Woman Bat glared at him “’Get in and close your eyes. If you look, we will fall.”.’

“Old Woman Bat clambered down the rock, singing a strange song. Her burden basket swayed wildly from side to side.

“Killer-of-Enemies thought the spider thread would surely break, so he opened his eyes to look.

“As soon as Kill-of-Enemies opened his eyes, he and Old Woman Bat crashed down from the cliff.

“Old Woman Bat landed first and broke her legs.

“Killer-of-Enemies fell on top of her and was safe.

“Old Woman Bat's broken legs soon mended, but from that day on her legs were short.”

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I’m just wonder that by interjecting more in the story within a story I might be able to not get caught up in ‘ versus ‘” and so on.

Thoughts/
Suggestions.
Thanks

It's mostly correct technically. But the tiny paragraphs cause unnecessarily too many quotes and clutter it up. The other problem is having Joe the story teller quote others. The correct thing to do is nest these in single quotes. E.g.

John said, "Mary said, and I quote, 'I don't want your stupid apology.'"

But really, it's pretty rare that a story teller will actually quote verbatim characters. Even in fiction I have a hard time with standard dialog tags, especially in first person, because people don't talk like that. He said,... She said... We're much more apt to paraphrase. And so I'd suggest 1) you create longer paragraphs (where no ending quote is required I think) and 2) let Joe paraphrase a lot more.

E.g.:

Joe told them that finally, Old Woman Bat saw him high in the eagle's nest. She came over to the cliff and began to climb. “What are you doing here?” she asked when she reached the top.

“Monster Eagle carried me up here. Please take me down.”

“Climb in my basket,” Old Woman Bat told him.

Here you're actually paraphrasing Joe but quoting his character verbatim, which makes no sense.

Joe said, "Old Woman Bat saw me high in the eagle's nest. She came over to the cliff and began to climb, and, when she'd reached the top, asked why I was there. So I told her Monster Eagle had carried me... And so she bade me climb in her basket and...

Mod note: Moved to Writing Discussions.

No, he's not "paraphasing", just leading into the dialog with some narrative. Very common. It it had been
When she reached the top, she said, "What are you doing here?"
you wouldn't have thought about it one way or the other.

It's not a matter of one character "quoting verbatim", it's an expression, "and I quote". Also fairly common. I have a line in a novel, "Your friends who you referred to as--and I think I'm quoting pretty precisely here--'three time losers'."

There's nothing exotic there, and nothing incorrect. The paragraph thing is pretty inevitable. If you start trying to eliminate the breaks things get hashed up pretty quick. Most represent a new line of dialogue--which require a break--or a shift back to another character.

There's nothing all that wrong with this stuff.

I got caught up on the extra question marks, commas and such just hanging out. I don't know why but as a reader that was distracting. I think that if you establish Joe as the story teller you could get rid of the extra quotes without it being confusing.

I read the first example only, and apart from Lin haven't a clue what the other critters are talking about. The first example is perfectly okay - I understood it, and if a dummy like me can understand it, anyone can - and my advice is to change editors.

Thanks for the comments.
I guess I don't have a whole lot of choices in this.
The story is about someone helping another by telling stories. Joe is telling Ray American Indian myths to get his mind on things to release the tension that's causing his amnesia.
The myths seem a bit more realistic with Old Woman Bat tells someone something as it';s being told by Joe.

I can understand why your editor might be having a problem with it. As a reader, I found that somewhat difficult to follow. I've been writing a story about a Holmesian-werewolf-detective called 'Willoughby Chase' where he is the narrator of the piece. Now, at some point in any detective novel there is the bit where the detective is told the story of the crime and I didn't want to have to use said bookisms or uber blocks of dialogue. What I actually did was break away from Willoughby listening to a character talk and had him narrate the story in the first person.

I know it's not how you have your story at the moment but, just in case it's a help in some way, I've included a section of it below. I warn you, it is totally unedited.

"My dear woman, not only have I heard of him but we have a jar of his honey in this very house. I wager that there is not an abode in London who hasn't heard of Bumble's Bees Honey. But what could possibly bring you so far south?"

"He has disappeared Mr Chase. Vanished in to the either. I woke up one morning and he was gone. I need to find him and I am told you are the best in your business."

"That I am," I said with rather more pomposity than I was reaching for, "But, I fear you have had a wasted journey, for I do not take on just any work that is presented to me. To catch my attention, madam, your case must be one of inexplicable intrigue."

"Then let me tell you my tail Mr Chase." I could see by the look in her eye that there was something this woman was frightened of. It wasn't easy for her to tell her tail but, as I took a seat behind my desk, she began.

***

It was a Saturday evening when Jack Bumble left his home to stroll in his grounds. Jack often took an evening stroll, but he always made sure never to leave the grounds. He lived on a large estate and there was always a chance of him getting called back by one of the servants. At least within the grounds of Bumbling Manor (a folly of a building) he could be easily found.

This Saturday, however, Jack did not return. A search party was dispatched, servants from every quarter. By morning the workers at the mill had been drafted as well and the local constabulary had been informed. It was easy to see why Jack's clothes had been missed in the dark. The small pile had been kicked in to the ditch, just outside the estate grounds, and it was only found when people started to depart. Of Jack Bumble, there was no sign. But that was not the only strange thing to be found at the house. The door to the main hall had been tampered with and a large, upside down pentagram had been drawn in human blood.