Thread: Is writing like talking?

I have at times agreed to give talks to writing groups, about various writing topics, perhaps hoping the they will buy one of my books and encourage their many friends to do likewise.

It always makes me uncomfortable and nervous,. I only use brief notes and sometimes wander dangerously away from the topic. Yesterday I knew that there was at least one qualified editor in the audience and I imagined that she was editing my talk as I was speaking, which made me even more nervous.

My point is, is writing completely different from talking? Or do we talk as we write?

A quick note: I know nothing about public speaking (aside from my horrible fear) -- and what I've read that playwright David Mamet has spoke about it (in regards to theatre -- though any form of speaking before the public is essentially theatre) -- keep it entertaining, and project. Everything else at that point becomes significantly less relevant. If you project, people are at ease because what they have come to hear (You) can be clearly heard - and if you keep them entertained, then they will wonder what you have to say next, and if you have them wondering that - well, that's you're whole objective, yes?

So is writing completely different from talking -- or, can you be 'edited' as you speak (or should you be)? That is an interesting question. I'm using personal points of reference, hopefully they can apply in some way. Take stand up comedy, for example. Most comedians just -- talk. It doesn't matter how it sounds when it comes out (so long as it can be heard) -- you can't assume everyone listening has come to criticize you or the quality of your presentation -- just assume they want to be entertained by it. That's what everyone really wants.

So speak how you want. I think I've only written this much because I've been trying to understand and get used to this fact. If the point has been made -- eloquence is irrelevant. So you can write how you talk, you can speak it how you talk (and therefore how you write) -- Don't sacrifice your voice for the sake of hoping you come across more clearly, because you probably already are.

As you can see, I talk as I write. And I talk a lot. And in a very circular fashion. Hopefully you'll get some usefulness from this. If anything, go read True and False by David Mamet. It's about acting, which I don't do much of -- yet. But you have to think about how much of life is really acting a part. So you giving a talk has an objective -- make it honest, entertaining, and interesting. If anything has a problem otherwise, they must be particularly gunning for you.


stephen

I articulate far better through writing. Some people have the gift of the silver tongue, others that of the silver pen, and really lucky ones have both.

For me, writing is completely different to talking. Very few of us, I'd say, worry about syntax when we talk.

I have no idea if what I do is typical or not. When I write, I write my first draft as I speak (or, as I am imagining being my character and speaking...if they speak differently than I do). Then I go back over it as an editor and fix colloquialisms, things that don't fit with the time period, weak or cliche expressions and, believe it or not, backwards sentences. I make sure that the character is speaking, not me. It usually takes numerous edits to really make it sound right.

For public speaking I figure out what points I want to cover, make sure I understand them myself, then make a little notecard with a short bulleted list to keep me on track...usually no more than five cues to keep me on track. I get nervous and I wander a bit but I try to speak naturally and then just go onto the next point when I feel I might have said enough on the first and might start wandering.

They're two very different animals. In speaking there is no going back to edit, once you've said it, you've said it.

Writing and speaking are different. Once words come out of your mouth, you cannot edit them.

Writing is easier because you have the BACKSPACE button, while when you talk you are only stuck with what you have said, which is impossible to change. Writing also gives you time to think things through, editing your words to make them even better. But we do talk through our writing, but we can make it better than just saying the words. On the other hand, it is sometimes hard to put our words into writing, which is frustrating when we know what we want to say, but don't know how to say it. Hmmm, the curse of the writer

Li Li

Originally Posted by Foxee

I go back over it as an editor and fix, believe it or not, backwards sentences.

What's a backwards sentence? Is it some form of Lewis Carroll-ism, or something else? How do they get created? Why do they need fixing?

I hate public speaking...no matter how confident I am in the subject matter, my face turns the color of a tomato....

While agreeing with the lack of editing in raw talk, isn't this lack of after-thought exactly what leads to writing from the heart? What comes out of your mouth is final, but doesn't it represent the truth as you see it? What's wrong with those unguarded moments when you say it as it is, and before the red lines obliterate the truth?

I have found myself editing the life out of passages that tumbled our of my mouth at the time of writing, until I no longer recognise or remember what I wrote. I'm left with words that are correct, but too correct to excite the reader, me.

I'm not arguing against editing, far from it, I just personally think it's easy to lose important 'innocence' when pondering for too long over the odd misplaced word.

However, a couple of years ago I tried a word recognition programme which put my raw words on to the page without much thought, and it was a disaster.

(Being stupid, I'm itching to try it again).

Harry, we're not perfect beings. We say things we literally did not mean to say. There's also more order to written words, which may or may not be a good thing depending on the situation.

Also, I can't count the number of times I've smacked myself upside the hide a few hours after a conversation and said "Damn, I should have said that!" My point here is that both have their advantages and disadvantages, and both are likely to be valued more than each other depending on the situation.

I am sort of wondering how we jumped topics from "Is writing like talking?" to "Is talking better than writing?"

Going through uni at the moment, one of the biggest mistakes I see with people giving speeches is treating it too much like writing. They spend time beforehand working out what to say, write it down as if it were a story or an essay and then go out there and try to read it out as such. It never sounds right.

In my view, one of the biggest advantages of speaking is that, while you don't have a backspace, you do get to see how your audience reacts as you go along. It gives you that chance to tailor things to the mood, to figure out what works and what doesn't before as you go along.

As to whether folk mentally edit speeches, I'm guilty of that at times, particularly when someone is doing something well. However, we have much higher expectations of writing than we do of speaking. People reading know that you've had the opportunity to go over what you wrote - I just had to fix two typos in that sentence. As such, it's held to a higher standard. Speaking is less so. We expect folk to stumble, stutter, go slightly off topic, ramble a bit and occasionally get caught up in the moment.

I must admit, I want to hear about these backwards sentences too.

Originally Posted by Idle Tinkerer

In my view, one of the biggest advantages of speaking is that, while you don't have a backspace, you do get to see how your audience reacts as you go along. It gives you that chance to tailor things to the mood, to figure out what works and what doesn't before as you go along.

Of particular importance regarding public speaking.

I used to be a comedian and I always thought that stand-up was the antithesis of writing but I suppose thought thought should be extended to public speaking in general. I've recently been comparing on and off during our open mic nights and I'm finding the same to be true. The way I always wrote comedy was to talk to myself about subjects because writing down routines will stop them being funny for some reason. But, you recorded it the best you can and rehearse and refine. That's the only way I found that worked for me.

I suppose a lot of the problem might be down to the way that an audience interacts differently with spoken words than they do with words written down.