Thread: What things do you wish you saw more of in Fantasy novels?

What do you wish you saw more of in Fantasy novels? Perhaps we can 'steal' some ideas and include them in our own works!

I'd like to see more originality, personally, and less reliance on strict adherence to formulaic writing.

I'm putting in another vote for "Not more of the same."

I have a particular dislike of the tendency to strip a classic of all of the features that made it a classic, then rehash it, over and over again. For instance, Tolkien wasn't just writing Quests, wasn't just covering the same old ground with the same old quirky characters. But rather than making up new races, new cultures, new plotlines, new characters... there have been thousands of Rings stories retold, and they've gotten progressively worse as each became the new, flatter status quo for fantasy.

I hate magic swords and dark lords and how one always seems to be necessary to defeat the other. I hate aloof elves and cranky dwarves and how short people are universally thieves. I hate peasants who find out they're royalty. I hate characters that all other characters love or are jealous of. I hate being told what to think of a character because the author can't make me feel that way about a character (e.g. telling me that said character is beautiful, smart, funny, evil, good, perfect in every way, etc). I hate how evil characters are ugly and humorless and good characters are often whiny and have Quests that mirror their character development along the Inner Strength and Confidence lines.

I love it when the author shows me a new world--something fresh and crisp, fragrant as the morning. I want to see something I haven't seen before or at least don't see often. I want to look at the real world differently after reading that story, to take something important with me and go raving about it. I want new cultures--without single culture races, without races being made of people who are pretty much the same (are universally one way or another; like evil, beautiful, good, aloof, cranky, etc), without the cultural and technological stagnation so prevalent in medieval fantasy (everything takes a thousand years, for instance).

I want currencies not based on the Gold Piece and I want them described as something other than flat gold coins. I want to know if they have holes in them, whose face is on them, how much the society depends and revolves on them. Is the culture grasping and therefore dealing with counterfeit, with cheating weights, with thieves? Does the society even have a currency or do they barter? Is the currency's worth in itself or does it stand for an amount hidden somewhere else, like a bank or a reservoir? Especially if money's important to the society, there's a lot ro think about; and if it's not, there's a cultural hole that needs filling.

I'd like to see timelines that don't mirror anything "European", governments that aren't "King in castle, lord of everything" as though kings have it so easy and everything's so amazing after the hero gets to be king. I'd like fewer happily ever afters, but maybe more arranged marriages and certainly a culture that doesn't have marriage but isn't anarchy or 'bad guys'.

Here's something I really like to do in my own writing: take something taboo and make it normal and completely non-evil for the new society. I've written people who would think it a social sin not to devour their grandmother, but do consider it terminally stupid to breed or own Chihuahuas. Very eye-opening.

Mike C pretty much took the words right out of my mouth... er... off of my fingertips. Whatever. Anyway... I was going to say I'd like to see more originality - almost any fantasy you pick up any more is cliche. It's all filled with 'standard' conventions that generations of gamers seem to feel must be adhered to. Once upon a time - in the days of Moorcock et al - the idea was to take the 'conventions' and toss them on their collective ear. Probably the most 'original' fantasy setting I've read in recent years is George Martin's Song of Ice and Fire... pity he's never finished it.

Automatic weapons

Originally Posted by Mike C

I'd like to see more originality, personally, and less reliance on strict adherence to formulaic writing.

Yeah that is exactly why I can't stand fantasy anymore... I read it for a while and I liked it but now I feel like I've experienced all Fantasy has to offer.

What I'd really like to see is the amount of thought and detail that SF generally has, put into a Fantasy story. But then again I'm pretty biased towards SF

What I want:

1. magic systems that are internally consistent and not overpowered.

2. nuanced and ethically complex plots and characters

What I want less of:

1. prophecies and chosen ones.

2. save the world plots

3. good v. evil, black v. white

4. neverending formulaic sequels (sorry Terry Brooks)

5. overused pseudo-medieval settings adopted out of laziness

I like some fantasy conventions, elves, dwarves, goblins and so on, but I prefer nontrad, novel approaches to fantasy. I will read derivative stuff, but I hold it to a much higher standard.

Fantasy to me is more Arthur Machen, Lord Dunsany, early Lovecraft, than Tolkien and his imitators. I like the mythopoetic angle and would see more of that. Developing whole societies that make sense, internal consistency...the best modern fantasies I've read have been written by sf writers, who know how to do that stuff, who know how to research and get the details right. Gordon Dickson, Larry Niven, Roger Zelazny, they've all done exemplary fantasy.
Faux-medieval swords and sorcery stuff, and all of the emo dark and gritty school stuff can just go away. You want dark and gritty, get McNaughton's Throne of Bones or Elric. But don't try to copy them.
Arthur Machen especially had a great line in fantasy, using the lore of his native Wales to craft spectacularly suggestive tales. I'd like to see more in that vein, whether it be developing Native American lore, working with afrits and their heirs, exploring the voudoun...updating that stuff would be utterly fascinating to read. Much more so than farmboys with swords.

I'd hold Jack Vance up as a sterling example of fantasy that avoids stereotypes. Always something new and inventive.

I'm always kind of shocked to find people into SF/F who haven't read "The Dying Earth". Should be required.

I'd have to agree about that. John Crowley is another writer who has done some outstanding sf/fantasy work without relying on genre tropes. Little, Big is fabulous.

It seems like a lot of what we're talking about here is older(but not too old) High Fantasy books. Brooks, etc. I've seen one mention of the "grit" school of fantasy, but other than that, not so much. There's a lot more going on in fantasy, so before we decry the Tolkien rip-offs like that's all modern fantasy has to offer, maybe we could look around at all the other stuff going on in the genre.

Such as? Ersatz high fantasy and paranormal romance are what gets noticed in the genre. I admit to being unfamiliar with a good deal of genre work because I can't stand the Brooks/Donaldson school and absolutely loathe "urban fantasy" except for the exemplary pioneering work by Fritz Leiber and Poul Anderson. China Mieville's stuff, some of that I've read, and some Tim Powers. Not my cup of tea, but well-done work.
What do you recommend in the genre, for say, an unapologetic sf reader with a taste for darkness and a keen eye for cliche?
Outside of say, Weaveworld and Barker's other more fantasy-oriented offerings, I haven't seen anything I could recommend.

Originally Posted by seigfried007

I hate magic swords and dark lords and how one always seems to be necessary to defeat the other. I hate aloof elves and cranky dwarves and how short people are universally thieves. I hate peasants who find out they're royalty. I hate characters that all other characters love or are jealous of. I hate being told what to think of a character because the author can't make me feel that way about a character (e.g. telling me that said character is beautiful, smart, funny, evil, good, perfect in every way, etc). I hate how evil characters are ugly and humorless and good characters are often whiny and have Quests that mirror their character development along the Inner Strength and Confidence lines.

That is exactly how I feel. Also, I think there's too many Mary Sues in too many fantasy books. I'm sick of the orphan-who-turns-out-to-be-royalty cliche. I am really sick of the Tolkien clones, in fact I'm sick of elves and dwarves in general. I also wish someone would present a new take on dragons. If we're including "urban fantasy", this list will get twice as long. I love reading urban fantasy, but that was back in the day when Charles de Lint was still one of the few only authors who did it (when it was a very niche market). I was excited when it got popular and then I realized the influx had caused some truly HORRIBLE books to be published, and made urban fantasy seem just like an extension of the romance genre. While I don't think romance genre doesn't have its place, I've always been more interested in reading things where the romance plotline isn't the main plot. On the flip side, the influx of urban fantasy has also created a few good authors, so I guess that's an advantage.

Originally Posted by moderan

Weaveworld and Barker's other more fantasy-oriented offerings, I haven't seen anything I could recommend.

Yes, I actually like Barker's fantasy-oriented stuff more than his horror.

You can't expect every book to be completely new and original, it's just not reasonable.

Some possible authors I'd suggest looking into would be Robin Hobb, Steven Erikson, Ekaterina Sedia, K.J. Bishop, Jeff Vandermeer, George R.R. Martin, Guy Gavriel Kay(altough from the comments in this thread, you might want to avoid the Fionavar Tapestry), China Mieville(not directed at Mod), and Jay Lake. Keep in mind that I'm suggesting these authors because they aren't stereotypical high fantasy. I make no promises about anyone liking them.

Please. If you want to read real fantasy as it was meant to be, I refer you to this wonderful bit of prose I wrote in November, 2007:

http://www.writingforums.com/showthr...rd#post1016962

Just scroll down to my second post, post no. 28 in the thread.