Pete_C

It's an odd attitude. My suggestion is based upon getting a sponsorship package from a large and respected business. That money and other services the sponsor can offer allows us to create a distribute a top class product. The sponsor has no say in the product and no influence. They merely get the kudos of nurturing new talent. They write it off as a loss against tax, so they don't really care. Trust me, if you have the front and the gall to ask, and your package is good enough and the project shows them in a good light, that's 80 per cent of the battle.

It's you decision, but one I don't understand.

Pete_C

I meant that the project could be good enough not to be looked down on, but to be taken seriously as ground-breaking and genuine vehicle for new talent, to the point that publishers or agents would use it as a tool, as well as an established reader base. Of course, if that is achieved, someone will put their hand in their pocket...

I meant uncompromising in the sense that firstly, any sponsor pays their money and gets what we offer as a deal. They have no influence on what do. Secondly, we also have to ensure that we don't publish work from forum mates because we like them, despite it not being the best. All published work must be of the highest quality.

No, I am proposing 100 per cent outside funding.

I've given Mike a fairly detailed summary of what I think would work. It steps outside of the norm, and I believe it has a very good chance of being successful. However, it won't be for everyone, as some of the feedback shows. It's over to him and the other mods to decide how to take it forward.

Note to Mike: The only thing I would ask is that if the suggestions I made are not right at this time that the detail be kept under your hats, as I might want to try something along those lines myself in the near future if it doesn't fly here.

Cran

in other words, both ... good


editorial integrity ... good ... though hard to maintain if the level of dependence remains high - plan for growth of support base and direct income over time ...

that certainly makes it easier to volunteer ...
similar criteria will still impact on the editorial team to ensure that funding is ongoing ...


New question: assuming the project moves to the next stage, how will you advise those selected? Via PM?

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Pete_C

Mine is just one idea of how things move forward. I presume there are several others. I guess we just wait to see what Mike and the Mods decide.

If it goes down the tried and trusted PDF route, I'll still chuck my hat in. I would reserve the right to push my idea out at some point, but wouldn't do it right away. There's no point in internal competition. However, I know a few people are interested, at least in principle, so I'd talk to them in the fullness of time.

I suppose all that really separates the ideas is funding. I figure we could do what I'm proposing for around £10K as a starter, maybe less. It's not a huge sum and one I'm certain - with the right presentation - we could get easily. However, it needs to be a group call.

If it doesn't fly here, it stops being a group call, and I'll go get the funding towards the end of the year (weather her is only good for a short a while, and I've some miles to put on the big Kwak, so I'd wait until autumn to kick it off if it's a private thing).

ash somers

yeah i've always been odd ...

not surprising, i do speak garbled, inter alia jabbawocky
and pete, why should i trust you? i hardly know you
from a bar of soap, sitting on the sink ledge ...

i am fully supportive of sponsorship packages
as well as nurturing new talent creatively
i just lack interest in it being a business

i don't understand why you want to

*shrug*

omginternetlord

Because I'm pretty sure it won't be able to subsist without money going into it.

ash somers

well then, i obviously missed the point
because i thought it was about forum members
all pitching in and taking on specific responsibilities
to put the bloody thing together, in a pdf format. so
everybody learns in a collaborative environment 'how to'
we're not talking about gold plated dissertations to the queen
these things need only take of our time, isn't that why we do it
experience and not so much about the glossy product, at the end ?
fuck the grand ideas and learn to crawl before you walk into brick walls

Mike C

Obviously.

You don't need to trust Pete; he's not asking you for money.

As far as projects 'driven by the dollar'... even the PDF version stalls with zero cash, which is why I'm funding it personally. As you have issues with that I'll understand you withdrawing.

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CMM_Kaleido

I am interested in the project, whichever way it goes. I have time constraints and won't over-commit at this time, but could become dedicated to a well-managed project that focused on quality work presented in a consistent, clean, and well-branded design.

I would be happy to start as a slusher and work on the design end if so needed. Just to put it out there my background and experience is in public relations and tech writing, design, and illustration.

ash somers

ha, how can i with draw, when i haven't even joined > ?
i never said i had issues with you funding it personally
god i hate it when people put werds into my mouth

you've obviously missed my point, entirely ...

que sera sera

NaCl

Interesting thread.

Artistic "endeavor" (spelled for most of the world) versus entrepeneurialism. Classic conflict!

I view the two primary ideas, presented in this discussion, as apples and oranges. They both merit consideration, and they both offer potential rewards. My perspective differs greatly on each approach:

Artistic "endeavour" (spelled for my Brit friends): This version asks numerous people to "invest" their time, volunteering for a variety of "positions" to produce a quality product. "Compensation" for their efforts ties to two main opportunities; 1) the publishing experience (slusher, copy nazi, editor, managing editor, graphic artist, etc.), and 2) the chance to publicly offer their own writing for publication in a semi-professional venue. Such a resource may, or may not, garner respect from the publishing industry and acceptance from the "buying" public, but it could be informative and fun.

Entrepeneurial approach: A business exists for one, and only one, purpose; to make a profit. Venture capitalists provide almost unlimited funding for new businesses where well presented business plans promise good possibilities of profitability. A typical business plan (BP) covers everything from marketing methods to the cost for janitorial services. There are generally three parties in a new business...investors, owners and employees. Obviously, a person can fall into more than one category.

The business arrangement presented earlier in this thread talks about markets and sponsors but it fails to address ownership, payment for "employees" and profit distribution for investors/owners. Frankly, I would never even consider participation in such an organization based on such a grossly inadequate BP, thus far provided. BTW - I have been the venture capitalist for three start-up businesses in the past ten years. They all turned a profit and my investment panned out...quite nicely, I might add!

If any of you are inclined to participate, you should get a contract specifying the terms of your involvement.

INVESTOR: As an investor, I demand a clear (and enforceable) document spelling out my financial responsibilities and the terms of payback, as well as, the details of any collateral.

OWNER: Is the business (assuming multiple "owners") going to be a partnership, corporation, LLC, Not-for-profit Organization, etc? What is the extent of my personal obligation for the debts and liabilities of the business? (In a general partnership, each partner is 100% liable for ALL the debts of the business...yes, if your other partners file for bankruptcy, and you are the sole partner left standing, then YOU can be assessed for ALL the debts!) And, finally, how much control will I have over the decisions of the business? Personally, I have NEVER accepted a minority interest (less than 50%) in any partnership. Minority interests can carry a lot of liability with little or no control over the decisions.

EMPLOYEE: This is an interesting question. You are all being asked to potentially "work" for this new "business". If you are a bonafide employee, then you SHOULD be paid in real wages. I have numerous employees in one of my current businesses and I have always paid them wages for their efforts; even in the early months of one new business, when the business was not profitable. Personally, I would NEVER commit my time (as an "employee") to a publishing-business venture unless I was guaranteed wages for my efforts.

In summary, the original idea presented by Mike C appeals to me as a fun writing-related activity. It offers training and basic experience in the publishing process, as well as, a chance for aspiring WF authors to achieve an entry-level of publication. Volunteer efforts for such an activity are entirely acceptable. On the other hand, there is no way I would volunteer my services for free to a start-up business unless I owned an equal, or controlling, interest in the company. Manic predictions about potential profits, or "very credible and high profile sources" of corporate sponsorship, have no substance without a detailed business plan to specify every facet of the contemplated venture. Without that, such representations are just smoke.

I have over 30 years experience as a successful business owner and venture capitalist.

Mike C - I don't have time to participate in the daily activities of your suggested e-zine (although, it does sound like fun) but I do have substantial business and marketing experience. I would be happy to act as a consultant resource in such areas, if you are interested.

.....NaCl

Pete_C

You'll also no doubt understand that to stick a full BP in a public forum might be foolish. I'd never do business with someone who would!

SeattleGhostWriter

I would definitely be interested... I know I am coming in late in the game on this thread...But yeah, I think it is a definite good idea

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Mike C

Noted. Though I don't recall any kind of BP being posted so far, just a selection of ideas.

To clarify: Nobody is being asked to invest anything other than time. Nobody is being offered any recompense other than gratitude.

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Mike C

Can I direct everyone's attention here - http://www.writingforums.com/writers...ml#post1117763

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