Non Serviam

The purchase price on a book is not the price to read it. It's the price to purchase a copy.

Once you own it, you can let your wife read it (because you own that copy). You can also lend it to your friends, and when they've finished with it, you can sell it on ebay.

You may not give photocopies to all your friends while hanging onto the original yourself, because then you're creating extra copies. Hence the word "copyright". That's the difference.

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Born naked, helpless, unable to care for himself and completely open-minded, Non Serviam has subsequently surmounted all these difficulties and gone on to become a decently-clothed, self-sufficient, close-minded sod.

Dan

Yeah, I'm aware of what "copyright" means.

So it's not the actual widespread distribution of the story that gets you, either. It's the making of copies.

What I could do is just pass my one paid-for copy around to anyone who wants to read it for eternity. I can also choose to resell it for whatever price I can get, in some cases making more than I paid for it, even though the copyright owner sees nothing of that resale. What I couldn't do is make a copy each for my mom and sister to read. Makes sense to me!

This is where "law" and "common sense" don't necessarily jive. And let's not even talk about what happens once works enter the public domain.

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Let it Flow at Fountain Pen: http://www.panicwriter.com/fountainpen/

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Non Serviam

Yup.

Yup, because you've paid for it and it's yours.

Yup. An outfit that does that is called a "bookshop", and I approve of those.

Good, glad to hear it.

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Born naked, helpless, unable to care for himself and completely open-minded, Non Serviam has subsequently surmounted all these difficulties and gone on to become a decently-clothed, self-sufficient, close-minded sod.

Dan

For some reason, I like you.

Anyway, it's not mine. Anything that's mine...that I own...I can do whatever the hell I want with it. Under the strictest versions of copyright law, I'm only renting it. I can keep it for as long as I want, but I'm still under a whole bunch of restrictions from the creator. However, I can resell it for any price I want. But I can't make copies of it, even if I turn no profit. Unless it's for educational purposes, that is, in which case I wouldn't be evil.

Regardless, you see where I'm coming from regarding what the law says and how stupid it is in practice?

__________________
Let it Flow at Fountain Pen: http://www.panicwriter.com/fountainpen/

And while you're there, check out my ongoing serial Addicted: http://www.panicwriter.com/fountainpen/id5.html

Non Serviam

Dan, I have no idea what your local law has to say about copyright. And I don't care either. The only laws that matter to me are the ones Her Majesty has signed.

My stance has nothing to do with law. It's partly ethical (in that making copies of copyrighted material without permission is wrong, and while it's not precisely theft from the author there are certainly similarities), and partly pragmatic, because as a very slightly published writer, I depend on copyright for an admittedly small proportion of my income, so copyright circumvention makes me very cross.

The idea that "it's okay to download it because I've bought a copy" is particularly irritating. You bought one (1) copy. That doesn't mean you could take a second copy from the bookstore without paying, does it?

Downloading it is similar in that it's obtaining another copy that you haven't paid for.

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Born naked, helpless, unable to care for himself and completely open-minded, Non Serviam has subsequently surmounted all these difficulties and gone on to become a decently-clothed, self-sufficient, close-minded sod.

Dan

You've got to be kidding me. Why would you have an issue if someone takes a book that they own and makes a hardcopy backup for their own personal use? What about if I just scanned it in so I could read it on a PDA or something? There are several books that I own that I wish I'd backed up before my dogs got to them.

Here's an example: I've bought a bunch of audiobooks through audible.com. Now, I only paid for them once, but I've downloaded some books several times as I bounced around from computer to computer. Is there a problem with that?

What is it about the concept of a physical copy (regardless of intended use) that pisses you off so much?

__________________
Let it Flow at Fountain Pen: http://www.panicwriter.com/fountainpen/

And while you're there, check out my ongoing serial Addicted: http://www.panicwriter.com/fountainpen/id5.html

Non Serviam

I'm afraid I'm at a loss for a simpler way to explain it to you. Have I been somehow unclear?

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Born naked, helpless, unable to care for himself and completely open-minded, Non Serviam has subsequently surmounted all these difficulties and gone on to become a decently-clothed, self-sufficient, close-minded sod.

Dan

No, your stance is clear. I just can't believe it.

What you're saying is that you, as a semi-pro writer, would rather have someone loan out their copy of your work to thirty other people than have that same person make a backup copy for themselves. You're saying that, somehow, the person making a single copy for themselves (violating the letter of the law) affects you more adversely than the person loaning it out to everyone and their brother (grossly violating the spirit of the law).

If that's what you believe...hey, it's your work. But it makes no sense whatsoever.

__________________
Let it Flow at Fountain Pen: http://www.panicwriter.com/fountainpen/

And while you're there, check out my ongoing serial Addicted: http://www.panicwriter.com/fountainpen/id5.html

Non Serviam

People lending each other copies is good, it helps sales. Because some of the book-borrowers are impressed, and become book-buyers in their own right. Each reader is a much stronger candidate to become a buyer than a non-reader.

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Born naked, helpless, unable to care for himself and completely open-minded, Non Serviam has subsequently surmounted all these difficulties and gone on to become a decently-clothed, self-sufficient, close-minded sod.

Dan

This is entirely inconsistent.

You want as many people as possible to read your work, regardless of whether or not you get paid for it, because it builds your readership and, hopefully, your paying fans. No surprise there; I'm sure we all feel that way.

What doesn't make sense is that, if you want as many people as possible to read your work, in the hopes that they become book buyers as opposed to just readers, you'd be all for people distributing your work in any way possible.

In which format they read it makes no difference whatsoever. Just because someone reads it in the book format doesn't mean they'll become a buyer, and just because someone reads an e-book doesn't mean they won't.

For one reason or another, you just hate copies, which I'm fine with. I have some irrational dislikes, too. But there's no logic attached to it, especially after this most recent explanation.

__________________
Let it Flow at Fountain Pen: http://www.panicwriter.com/fountainpen/

And while you're there, check out my ongoing serial Addicted: http://www.panicwriter.com/fountainpen/id5.html

Non Serviam

I'm clearly not going to persuade you, so maybe we should agree to differ.

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Born naked, helpless, unable to care for himself and completely open-minded, Non Serviam has subsequently surmounted all these difficulties and gone on to become a decently-clothed, self-sufficient, close-minded sod.

Malone

Hmm. I obviously write for different reasons than the mods here. I'm a full time writer who enjoys a paycheck as much as the next guy, but if I wrote something that people wanted to read enough that they took the trouble to scan it and share it online, I'd be quite happy.
Some people here should rethink their creative motives.

That said, I understand why the link was deleted and have no problem with that. Sorry if I caused a stir.

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There Is A Policeman Inside All Our Heads: He Must Be Destroyed