Literary Publicists? - Page 2 - Writers Forum

SeattleCPA · 08-17-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

don't know that i'd call dropping a self-published book in bookstores here and there 'stupid' if all you want is to have people know it exists and don't care if you're giving them away [or leaving them to be tossed]... but expensive, yes!...

No, I agree with that sentiment... but here's the problem...The bookstores can return your books to your distributor and get them to pay for the book. E.g., you "reverse shoplift" a book that costs $20... what you may have to do is buy the book back for its wholesale price (roughly $10)...

BTW, I'm not making this up. I have had a few book publisher clients (I'm a CPA remember) and when guys participate in this deal where the publisher sends off for free a box of books to see if they'll sell, the bookstores return the books for a cash refund.

Ugh.

mammamaia · 08-18-2007, 07:00 PM

ok, but if they never had to pay for them in the first place, no one is bound to 'pay them back' for a return, are they?

MissMaria · 08-18-2007, 09:32 PM

Much, much thanks..

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lin

Jesus christ almighty Godfuck in heaven no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aieeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

That seems to cover all the angles...

Time to shop around. There's no way your book can generate $12k a month in royalties, so why would you ever even consider this?

That was pretty much my responce- and as for asking, I was pretty set on a dead 'NO' but I'm new in the writing world, so I wanted to be sure I wasnt missing anything. Apparently not... no ski masks that I could see, but who knows? Could explain more than it doesnt.

I WILL check out the book rec, though- thanks

And more hugs&cookies for everyone who helped

MissMaria · 08-18-2007, 09:34 PM

PS on reverse shoplifting: really? but how could they make them buy them back? paying for shipping or some such thing I could see, but...

BWE · 08-25-2007, 12:19 AM

I know one author who is paying $8k per month for 3 months. But they have international sales. I still don't think they are making much at that.

Phenix&Phenix · 08-27-2007, 11:19 AM

This landed in my inbox this morning thanks to Google Alerts. I wouldn't normally butt in but just want to clear up a false statement.

We don't charge anywhere close to $12K a month. In fact, that's more than what we charge for a three month national publicity campaign.

MissMaria, since I don't know your real name or the title of your book, I can't get more specific in my response.

If you or anyone else have any additional questions, feel free to email me at rshelton@phenixpublicity.com.

Thanks,
Rusty Shelton
Managing Director
Phenix & Phenix Literary Publicists

Mike C · 08-28-2007, 10:21 AM

Hi Rusty

Thanks for the input - the figure seemed a little high!

While you're here maybe you could write a post on the uses and usefulness of a publicist? It's always nice to hear things from the horses mouth, as it were.

lin · 08-28-2007, 11:47 AM

It still seems a little high.

Quote:

I know one author who is paying $8k per month for 3 months. But they have international sales. I still don't think they are making much at that.

Oh, "they" are making out just fine. The author is getting hosed. It's called "stupidity tax".

lin · 08-28-2007, 11:52 AM

Could you put me in touch with your friend? I can do it for a LOT less.

In fact, think about this. You get some young PR flac type and just hire him. Pay him $2000 a month. Tell him to publicize you. It's his full time job. He'll have a learning curve, but do you really think he'll only do a quarter as well as "they"?

My approach, actually, would be to go to a university with a good program and offer an internship. Rotate it to new incumbents with each semester, hire somebody on if they are getting results that are worth the money.

Actually I did exactly that at a catalog I ran. Worked out really well.

These figures are just plain nuts... figure out how many books you'd have to sell to break even on eight grand a month. It's going to be around 500-1000 books A DAY. And that means that many books over and above what are moving by the publishers efforts.
Now if they can get you on Oprah, that might pay out. But come on, think about it.

Phenix&Phenix · 08-28-2007, 12:41 PM

Hi Mike,

Yes, that figure is extremely high (so is $8K). As a general rule most of the top publicity firms in the U.S. charge anywhere from $2.5K - $6K a month for a national campaign.

Regarding your question about authors and publicity…Hiring a professional publicity firm is not the best decision for every author. Authors with limited distribution or niche markets are probably better off handling the promotion on their own. We rarely take on a POD book, but if we do it's because the author has goals that we can help them achieve beyond book sales. For example, if a consultant self-pubbed a book on leadership with a POD publisher and wants to use the PR a publicity firm can drum up to attract speaking engagements or business to his consulting firm, that makes sense. However, if that same consultant was looking at hiring a publicist solely to drum up book sales, they should save their money.

Just as a snapshot, we're a boutique publicity firm and we have two main sets of clients: individual authors and publishing houses. Most authors that hire us are traditionally published and are looking to our publicity firm for help in expanding their platform as an author, speaker or expert on a certain topic. We also have long-term relationships with most of the publishing houses we work with and they typically only hire out their top titles to outside firms. I would always suggest that you consult the PR Director at your publishing house before you make any decision on hiring an outside firm because they will often have suggestions about who might be a good fit.

Those of you that are looking at hiring a publicist should do your homework. Sites that have been mentioned in this thread are great places to do research. Most firms will also have a client list, case studies and other details about their track record available on their website, so review those items as well. The biggest thing to look for when you interview a publicist (besides a great track record and reputation) is whether or not they are genuinely reviewing your book to make sure it’s a good fit for them. Quality firms are going to interview you as much as you interview them.

Hope that helps…

Rusty
phenixpublicity.blogspot.com

lin · 08-28-2007, 02:13 PM

Thanks for the information, Rusty.
Not to put you on the spot, but I'm sure you realize what I'm saying about the number of sales increase needed to make expenditure like that payout. Would you say that your agency (or even the "typical" promo agency) justifies their expenditure in sales figures?
Are efforts made to track sales increases with an eye to justifying the expense?

Thanks
Lin

Non Serviam · 08-28-2007, 02:35 PM

I'm curious.

Why do literary publicists work for a flat fee? Sales outfits in most other areas of business work on commission, or commission plus expenses.

Personally I'd happily hire marketing professionals on that basis. I'd be much more dubious about hiring them for a flat fee.

lin · 08-28-2007, 09:10 PM

You said it.

Mike C · 08-29-2007, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Non Serviam

I'm curious.

Why do literary publicists work for a flat fee? Sales outfits in most other areas of business work on commission, or commission plus expenses.

Personally I'd happily hire marketing professionals on that basis. I'd be much more dubious about hiring them for a flat fee.

Publicists etc tend to work for a flat fee because a lot of what they do is intangiable - there's not always a direct correlation between publicity input and sales output. It's a lot different to an ad campaingn, for example, where you might have a TV ad slot running for a couple of weeks and a corresponding spike in sales.

I used to be involved in trade exhibitions. It used to cost us around $100k to build and man a stand for a week, there was a lot of pressing of flesh and meeting and greeting, and letting people know who we were, but no tangiable increase in sales that could be attributed solely to the exhibition; it was more of a slow burner, people would remember us maybe 6 or 12 months down the line and look us up.

Non Serviam · 08-29-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Publicists etc tend to work for a flat fee because a lot of what they do is intangiable - there's not always a direct correlation between publicity input and sales output. It's a lot different to an ad campaingn, for example, where you might have a TV ad slot running for a couple of weeks and a corresponding spike in sales.

I used to be involved in trade exhibitions. It used to cost us around $100k to build and man a stand for a week, there was a lot of pressing of flesh and meeting and greeting, and letting people know who we were, but no tangiable increase in sales that could be attributed solely to the exhibition; it was more of a slow burner, people would remember us maybe 6 or 12 months down the line and look us up.

Makes sense, I suppose. If you're a publisher with warehouses full of books to shift. You'd engage such a firm to sell a substantial inventory, but probably not a specific book, particularly a debut novel from an unknown. (Maybe Michael Crichton might have a direct relationship with a publicist!)

It throws the OP's situation into sharp relief, doesn't it?

I have no idea why a publisher would acquire a book and then refuse to market it. That makes no business sense to me at all, particularly if they've paid an advance and printed the books... do they have publicists for other material? Why would they exclude this particular book from their general marketing efforts?

I can think of a few possible reasons why they might wash their hands of it, but, I'm reluctant to speculate for fear of inadvertently libelling the OP...