Self Publishing - Page 2 - Writers Forum

Amedeus · 06-19-2007, 12:40 PM

First thanks for all the interesting information. Its very helpful. Althought it is a little confusing. I found an ad in Popular Science magazine for a self publisng mcompany that claimed they worked with amazon and barnes and noble. Does anyone know how legit these claims may be. Or does anyone know and good self publishing company that theyve used before? i was a little leary when i saw the name Brnes and Nobe becuase I consiodered that a stretch that they would publish books there. But maybe they have got a few placed there.

SeattleCPA · 06-19-2007, 06:16 PM

Ah, I know I said I wouldn't post any more comments on self-publishing, but as one of the proponents of self-publishing, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that those sorts of advertisements are not the way you'd go...
Self-publishing, IMHO, is a business you start and then run...

mammamaia · 06-19-2007, 06:44 PM

as i understand it, anybody can get any book listed on amazon's and b&n's websites and all the pod's and other vanity publishers do it... that is most likely what that outfit is calling 'work with'... it's not the same as having their books on the shelves of b&n's actual stores...

i seriously doubt they'd be able to get b&n to stock their books, as self-publishing companies usually have a no-return policy that makes them persona non grata for 'brick & mortar' shops...

Mike C · 06-20-2007, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleCPA

Self-publishing, IMHO, is a business you start and then run...

Important to remember this. If you self publish, you have to treat it as a business. YOU have to advertise your book, YOU have to persuade people to buy it, YOU have to drive sales, because nobody's going to do it for you. Plan it carefully before you start and plan realistically. Treat it as any other business start-up, otherwise the only person who'll buy will be your mother.

Nickie, who commented earlier in the thread, has done a great job of cornering a niche readership. Another self-publishing guy who's doing reasonably well is Brooks Carver, a US writer who writes novels around the US civil war. His website is at http://www.prairie-sky-press.com/ . Both have achieved some success because they know their markets, not because they've sat on their backsides hoping for the best.

Himani · 06-20-2007, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Important to remember this. If you self publish, you have to treat it as a business. YOU have to advertise your book, YOU have to persuade people to buy it, YOU have to drive sales, because nobody's going to do it for you. Plan it carefully before you start and plan realistically.

I have a friend who has self-published a novel and she's having problems with the advertising aspect of it. It's very difficult for her, I'm sure, because she's also got another full-time job and she has an active family life, so it's hard to devote the kind of time and energy needed for marketing.

Seeing her struggles, and knowing my own weaknesses (I suck at selling products. Back in high school I was a door-to-door knife saleswoman for 3 months and I sold 1 set of knives) I don't know if I could self-publish.

Mike C · 06-20-2007, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Himani

...she's also got another full-time job and she has an active family life, so it's hard to devote the kind of time and energy needed for marketing.

Most people in that situation work. Many published (through publishing houses) authors still have to work. The job still needs to get done, if you want it to succeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Himani

Seeing her struggles, and knowing my own weaknesses (I suck at selling products. Back in high school I was a door-to-door knife saleswoman for 3 months and I sold 1 set of knives) I don't know if I could self-publish.

That's a choice you have to make, and it's why the hours spent planning will pay dividends.

Amedeus · 06-20-2007, 02:59 PM

Ok so tthier talking about barnes and nobles website. Well i Think if I get the book publisehd on the website I could do a good job of marketing it. NOw how to get it published? I already tried for an agent but coudlnt get one. Is there a difference between slef publishing and and jsut getting it publsiehd by a publisher? Do some of these ads like the one in popular science magazine do all of the work for you as far as placement of books and you do just the marketing? I would think being on amazon and barnes and noble would give you access to a wide marketplace.

SeattleCPA · 06-20-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

.. self-publishing companies usually have a no-return policy that makes them persona non grata for 'brick & mortar' shops...

Trade books are sold on basis that retailer can return them. Period. That's the way the business works.

Also just fyi? To get a book stocked in any volume at B&N and to a lessor extent (in my experience) at Borders, you have to pay extra money to retailer for "co-op advertising," "display placement," and so on.

SeattleCPA · 06-20-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amedeus

1. Is there a difference between slef publishing and and jsut getting it publsiehd by a publisher?

2. Do some of these ads like the one in popular science magazine do all of the work for you as far as placement of books and you do just the marketing?

3. I would think being on amazon and barnes and noble would give you access to a wide marketplace.

Okay, sorry, I numbered the questions to make it easier to answer them...

Concerning #1, yes, absolutely. And you need to learn about this difference (and a hundred more) before you consider self-publishing.

Concerning #2: I don't know, but my guess would be they take $10K from, pay a printer $3K to print your book, and then give you a pamphlet that provides a bunch of simple book marketing ideas you're supposed to use to "go get 'em cowboy."

Concerning #3: Sorry dude. Redmond Technology Press, my old publishing venture, probably still has several dozen titles listed at amazon.com and bn.com (even if only as ebooks). Some of these were very successfully promoted when they came out. In spite of this stuff, those books probably sell (in total) fewer than a dozen copies a month.

Mike C · 06-21-2007, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amedeus

I would think being on amazon and barnes and noble would give you access to a wide marketplace.

Being on myspace gives you access to a wide marketplace, but that won't sell any books either. Access isn't the problem. The problem is leading the horses, and making them drink. Just having a book listed on amazon means nothing.

I notice you refer to 'just' marketing. Like it's a minor detail. Now, assuming nobody buys books by accident, how do you intend persuading all those readers to buy? And how many books do you think you can sell?

Amedeus · 06-25-2007, 02:52 PM

Yah marketing definelty would be important. Are there companies that will print package and send off your orders though say if you got orders off amazon.com? Is that still considered self publishing?

Mike C · 06-25-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amedeus

Are there companies that will print package and...

yes but you're missing the point. putting books in the mail is ephemera. Nothing.

SELLING the things. Who will you sell them to? How will you connect to the reader? How will you persuade them to part with money? Just being listed on B&N or Amazon will not sell a single book. If you self publisha novel, there's only one person on earth who'll sell your book - you. How will you do that?

Joe Moore · 06-25-2007, 06:59 PM

I’ve heard that Amazon accounts for less than 1% of total retail books sales. Here’s some interesting information concerning books sales and Amazon that supports that. During the summer of 2005, a successful NYT bestselling author kept track of her sales over a three-week period. Her total sales during that time were 108,700 copies. Of those, 320 or .02% were from Amazon.

Of the 108k in sales, here are the rankings:
Wal-Mart 47,671
Costco 17,291
Target 16,341
Sam’s 14,108
Waldenbooks 4,888
B&N 4,140
Borders 3,993
Amazon 320

Sales from independents, grocery stores, pharmacies and other outlets were not recorded. It’s believed that Amazon makes their profit selling used books, not new ones. So having your book listed on Amazon only probably would not generate very many sales.

lin · 06-25-2007, 07:07 PM

Exactly, Mike. This is backackwards. Which would you rather do, go try to sell a book and have somebody else package it? Or have somebody else with a huge presence sending you orders to drop in the mail?

During a time when I had a book selling 10 a day of my ebay store (which was essentially the shopping cart for my self-promoted website) I timed how long it took to put them in the envelope, address and mail. About 15 minutes. So without taking in the profit on the book itself I was clearing a dollar and a quarter on S&H charge times 10 times 4...so about $60 an hour while sitting home listening to music and annoying my bitchy old neighbor.

Not that it applies to anything, but I thought it was cool at time.

wmd · 06-25-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amedeus

Yah marketing definelty would be important. Are there companies that will print package and send off your orders though say if you got orders off amazon.com? Is that still considered self publishing?

Amedeus... I think you are focusing too much on what is and what isn't self publishing. The differences are obvious.

There is a lot to be said about self publishing and much of it you will have to research. We could be here all year talking about the details, but here are some important things to remember....

First "Self Publishing companies".... I find that term funny because it is almost an oxymoron... There are printers that sell services to authors. Everything they offer is al a cart and everything has a price tag. Many times the things they offer are either a waste of money (getting your book listed on amazon.com) or with a little footwork you can do it yourself cheaper (writing a press release and mailing it to relevant publications).

There are printers that I feel are legit and straightfoward with what they offer.. lulu.com, xlibris, and a few others... there are also a lot that only care about getting more money from the writer. Do your homework before using any of them.

A self published book is something that needs a very specific market... a cult following... and you have to do ALL the selling and marketing yourself. That is the hard part... Stuffing envelopes and mailing copies is nothing... marketing is what is going to get you the orders.

Again.. there is a lot that can be discussed on this topic... and it seems that you need to keep asking the right questions so you know what you are jumping into before you "sign up with a self publishing company"