General Agent Questions. - Writers Forum

JP Wagner · 06-15-2006, 02:33 AM

Up to this point, desbite recieving a couple of cards I have not attempted to get an agent. I have been waiting until I had what I felt was enough complete manuscripts to have need of an agent. I still feel I don't quite have what I am hoping for yet, but I had a few questions concerning them nonetheless:

First off, I was wondering how fast a good agent can sell a book. I know they do the work to get your book sold because they want to make the moeny too, but what would you say is a good estimate of time for them to sell it?

Also, alot of people make it sound like agents just deal with novels, even though I have read articles and such where agents also sell short stories and novellas. I was wondering if agents will handle all your work or just one thing they pre approve. Or will they ask you for more stuff after they like one thing? Like do they get you into literary journals or magazines in addition to just getting your novels sold? Because for me novels are in the minority of my writing, I tend to write novellas much faster and better (in my opinion at least) and short stories as well.

I was also wondering if in general they may overlook someone because of their age. Because impressing an agent verbally is one thing, but when they look at your stuff....well....lets just say in previous experience in life in general, people tend to find more mistakes in a peice by an amateur than they do in a peice by a Professor of Literature even if my miracle of chance there were the same amount of mistakes in both peices. Ya know? Look harder find more? Heh. Again, I am only 19.

Thank you in advance for your advice.

James.

aspiring · 06-15-2006, 03:14 AM

Well, most of these questions can only be answered by whichever agent expresses an interest in your work. Each agent is different, and whilst some may agree to only handle one aspect of your work, leaving you free to sell other types of work yourself, others will handle everything you write. I don't know if agents handle magazine articles - I don't write any so this situation has not arisen with my agent! Some people may have two agents for the different sorts of work they write, eg an agent for children's picture books and an agent for romantic fiction.

How fast can an agent sell a book? Again, it depends on many things - the current market being the most important factor. The range may be from within days to not at all. My novel took six months before it found the right publisher, although my agent had hoped it would take less time than that.

As for age, if your writing is good enough then it really doesn't matter what age you are. Don't get a complex about it. If your writing is rejected, it's not because you're 19; it's because it's not good enough. But if you are seriously paranoid about it, then when you send in your submission to them, don't tell them how old you are. Simple.

By the way, you don't have to have a huge portfolio to get an agent. Select your best piece and send that. If they are interested they will ask to see more. If they see potential in you then it won't matter if you haven't written loads yet. It is much better to write one outstanding piece that showcases your talent than it is to compile a collection of ten mediocre pieces. Give the agent a chance to get excited about your work. That gets your foot in the door.

One last point - your signature is an incorrect quote. It should read 'Quoth the Raven' not 'Quote the Raven'

JP Wagner · 06-15-2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspiring

Well, most of these questions can only be answered by whichever agent expresses an interest in your work. Each agent is different, and whilst some may agree to only handle one aspect of your work, leaving you free to sell other types of work yourself, others will handle everything you write. I don't know if agents handle magazine articles - I don't write any so this situation has not arisen with my agent! Some people may have two agents for the different sorts of work they write, eg an agent for children's picture books and an agent for romantic fiction.

How fast can an agent sell a book? Again, it depends on many things - the current market being the most important factor. The range may be from within days to not at all. My novel took six months before it found the right publisher, although my agent had hoped it would take less time than that.

As for age, if your writing is good enough then it really doesn't matter what age you are. Don't get a complex about it. If your writing is rejected, it's not because you're 19; it's because it's not good enough. But if you are seriously paranoid about it, then when you send in your submission to them, don't tell them how old you are. Simple.

By the way, you don't have to have a huge portfolio to get an agent. Select your best piece and send that. If they are interested they will ask to see more. If they see potential in you then it won't matter if you haven't written loads yet. It is much better to write one outstanding piece that showcases your talent than it is to compile a collection of ten mediocre pieces. Give the agent a chance to get excited about your work. That gets your foot in the door.

One last point - your signature is an incorrect quote. It should read 'Quoth the Raven' not 'Quote the Raven'

thanks for the advice. heh and I know that about the Raven quote, I just figured it was the more modern word to use. I love that poem, read it like a billion times. heh.

Mike C · 06-15-2006, 05:50 PM

An agent may sell a novel in a week, maybe a year, maybe never. Depends on the agent and the book.

How many manuscripts do you think you need?

Agents will only look at novels. They won't touch short stories or novellas. If you write short stories, you don't need an agent. And stop writing novellas - they're too hard to sell.

heh, and I meant to correct your quote too. Quote isn't a modern version of quoth, they mean different things. Quoth means 'said'. Quote is what you do when you report what the raven said.

JP Wagner · 06-15-2006, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

An agent may sell a novel in a week, maybe a year, maybe never. Depends on the agent and the book.

How many manuscripts do you think you need?

Agents will only look at novels. They won't touch short stories or novellas. If you write short stories, you don't need an agent. And stop writing novellas - they're too hard to sell.

heh, and I meant to correct your quote too. Quote isn't a modern version of quoth, they mean different things. Quoth means 'said'. Quote is what you do when you report what the raven said.

hmm...are you totally sure about that novella thing? Because many times novellas take the length of short novels which can sell pretty quick. I mean of mice and men, Old man and the sea and the pearl are all technically novellas but they sell all over the place and in almost novel format. You know, small 4.25 by 6.75 type books with 2 hundred pages would probably be about 90 pages in 8 by 11. So technically I guess it depends on the size of the novella. (I dont mean like 30-40 page stories) I mean like 70-100 page stories that I wouldn't consider long enough to be a novel myself. But I guess could technically be short novels.

And I have read alot of articles about agents selling short stories but I havent seen anything on this forum about it. Which is why I was asking. I guess by your response they don't that often so it must be a special thing, but could it depend on the agent? On the very least I know I have seen listings in the guide to agents on them wanting to sell short story collections. No meaning disrespect here to you or your experience, just inquiring based on information I have seen that may counter what you have stated. Respectfully. ^.^

And thank you for your advice.

mammamaia · 06-15-2006, 09:35 PM

hmm...are you totally sure about that novella thing?

...yes, i'm sure mike is... and so am i...

Because many times novellas take the length of short novels which can sell pretty quick. I mean of mice and men, Old man and the sea and the pearl are all technically novellas but they sell all over the place and in almost novel format. You know, small 4.25 by 6.75 type books with 2 hundred pages would probably be about 90 pages in 8 by 11. So technically I guess it depends on the size of the novella. (I dont mean like 30-40 page stories) I mean like 70-100 page stories that I wouldn't consider long enough to be a novel myself. But I guess could technically be short novels.

...steinbeck and hemingway aren't writing those today!... we're dealing with the market in 2006, not back in the 40s and 50s... and the optimum length for a first novel by an unknown writer is 100,000 words... novellas have virtually no market, other than a few niche indies if it's sci-fi or fantasy... or for the YA crowd...

And I have read alot of articles about agents

...where did you see these articles?... and what agents sold stories for what writers?... were they unknown new ones or established best-selling authors?... sure, margaret atwood's agent will sell her short stories... and so will stephen king's... but no legit agent will take on an unknown with anything less than a full novel, if it's for the adult market...

Which is why I was asking. I guess by your response they don't that often so it must be a special thing, but could it depend on the agent? On the very least I know I have seen listings in the guide to agents on them wanting to sell short story collections. No meaning disrespect here to you or your experience, just inquiring based on information I have seen that may counter what you have stated.

...IF there are some that do, they are few and far between and then, they most likely will only take them on if the stories have been previously published and well-received...

JP Wagner · 06-15-2006, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

hmm...are you totally sure about that novella thing?

...yes, i'm sure mike is... and so am i...

Because many times novellas take the length of short novels which can sell pretty quick. I mean of mice and men, Old man and the sea and the pearl are all technically novellas but they sell all over the place and in almost novel format. You know, small 4.25 by 6.75 type books with 2 hundred pages would probably be about 90 pages in 8 by 11. So technically I guess it depends on the size of the novella. (I dont mean like 30-40 page stories) I mean like 70-100 page stories that I wouldn't consider long enough to be a novel myself. But I guess could technically be short novels.

...steinbeck and hemingway aren't writing those today!... we're dealing with the market in 2006, not back in the 40s and 50s... and the optimum length for a first novel by an unknown writer is 100,000 words... novellas have virtually no market, other than a few niche indies if it's sci-fi or fantasy... or for the YA crowd...

And I have read alot of articles about agents

...where did you see these articles?... and what agents sold stories for what writers?... were they unknown new ones or established best-selling authors?... sure, margaret atwood's agent will sell her short stories... and so will stephen king's... but no legit agent will take on an unknown with anything less than a full novel, if it's for the adult market...

Which is why I was asking. I guess by your response they don't that often so it must be a special thing, but could it depend on the agent? On the very least I know I have seen listings in the guide to agents on them wanting to sell short story collections. No meaning disrespect here to you or your experience, just inquiring based on information I have seen that may counter what you have stated.

...IF there are some that do, they are few and far between and then, they most likely will only take them on if the stories have been previously published and well-received...

Well thats why I was asking. I am actually a primarily science fiction and fantasy author and the novellas I write are usually between 40,000-60,000 words. (When I write a novel its about 200,000) so thats why I say it takes me alot longer.

But looking in primarily the science fiction and fantasy sections in stores for new material I have seen many 200 page 4.25 by 6.75 short novels that people sell. Usually by recurring authors given but I have seen then pretty often, but you did say that those feilds do that. So yah.

I read those articles in the Guide to Literary agents and actually in looking in the index there was a good section of 20 or more agencies that try to sell short story collections. It was just as abundant as the science fiction section, so it didnt seem that far out there to me. Then again maybe science fiction is farther out than I think. *shrug*

well thanks anyway for the advice. ^.^

Mike C · 06-16-2006, 01:37 AM

Writing in the 40-60k bracket is shooting yourself in the foot. Virtually no magazine will touch anything over 10k, and the expectation for a novel is 80 - 100k. Then you shoot the other foot... 200k? If your surname is King, maybe, but for a first time author, no way.

Time to employ your editorial skills.

mammamaia · 06-16-2006, 01:58 AM

i gotta agree with mike here...

JP Wagner · 06-16-2006, 04:02 AM

lol you'd be surprised, a few of the magazines such as Analog actually take stories up to 80,000 words. Most science fiction magazines I have seen take up to 20 thousand words, but I see what you mean about it being right in between in the market. Science fiction is a broad feild and they make exceptions (they even say so in their adds) but for more general peices it seems there is a strict guideline to follow.

Heh and yes I know the 200,000 novel is not going to be my first book. Thats one major reason I havent looked for an agent yet, I'm holding back because I know its too long. I thought a shorter peice around 50,000 words would be mroe appealing but now its too short. Oh what a tangled web we weave when we decide to freaking WRITE!!! >_<. lol.

Although I do not write only to get paid alot of times I write for myself and for the writing in general, I can see alot of my lengths being a problem then.

So do publishers and agents reject you right away because of length too? Or are you simply saying your first novel needs to fit these lengths? Is science fiction really the only broad feild? Because I have to admit up to this point the short novels I have seen have all been science fiction. Or teen books. Are the guidelines for teen books different? Or teen science fiction? heh.

Mike C · 06-16-2006, 04:49 AM

You'll note I said 'virtually' - and the reality is that unless you're well known, no magazine will commit that many pages to you. You'll find that work in the sub-5k category stands a far greater chance of publication.

I'm not saying categorically that a 50k or 200k novel will be rejected out of hand purely on length, but you have to be aware that it's a buyers market, and you stand a much better chance of success of you're offering what they're buying. In all likelihood if you submit a 50k novel and it's the best thing they ever read, they'll take it and tell you to add another 30k words or even double the length.

JP Wagner · 06-16-2006, 05:11 AM

some magazines actually take big type works and will post parts of it like a series. like take a 50,000 word thing and cut it into 5 10,000 word parts or something. *shrug* at least what I've read.

Yeah, thats a good point though. I guess I'll just have to add some to my novellas.

But what about my previous question on science fiction and teen stories and the lengths for those?

thanks again for all the advice.

aspiring · 06-16-2006, 05:37 AM

Quote:

But what about my previous question on science fiction and teen stories and the lengths for those?

I don't know about sci-fi but my teen novel (to be published next year) is 62,000 words. I wrote one of 32,000 words which was rejected for being too short (the publisher said that it was underdeveloped and they were right). Teen fiction is usually over 50,000 words.

I have recently started using the 'text stats' option on Amazon (the dot com not the UK site) whcih tells me the word count of a book. Try looking up some books and seeing what their word count is. Then you know roughly what you should aim for.

Mike C · 06-16-2006, 05:45 AM

Again, serialisations are very rare, the magazines that take them are few and they're very selective.

All genres fit broadly within the same spectrum. Fantasy and sometimes SF can stretch out to maybe 120k (fantasy readers like a lot of words!). This is for first time novels, obviously, once you're known and have a reputation you can mess with the rules a little. Teen I don't deal with, but aspiring has answered that one and given a useful tip on the amazon thing!

Anarkos · 06-16-2006, 09:35 AM

Crazy, that Amazon stats thing turns up some surprising word counts, eg:
Chuck Palahniuk - Fight Club: 49,000.
Irvine Welsh - Trainspotting: 102,000 (almost spot on the standard novel count, which is odd, as it always struck me as somewhat over long...oh, and "fucking" and "cunt" were amongst the top words...who said you can't get anywhere with much profanity?)
JG Ballard - Crash: 62,000.