What is the difference? - Writers Forum

Red_Venus · 12-14-2005, 11:18 AM

Hi,

I was wondering if someone could explain the difference between a 'Vanity publisher' and a 'self-publisher'? I have seen ads for both, but I haven't been able to distinguish the difference between them. I've heard that both are rip-offs, is this true in every case?

(Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm sure you've probably already answered it about five billion times!

Thanks in advance!)

Shawn · 12-14-2005, 11:19 AM

Vanity Publisher and Self Publisher are the same thing... they steal your money.

mammamaia · 12-14-2005, 12:05 PM

it's true that it's all 'vanity' publishing, no matter what fancier name they use, such as 'pod' or 'subsidy' or whatever... it's 'vanity' because you are paying to have your book published instead of being paid...

they don't 'steal' your money... but they do 'relieve' you of it... and most don't give fair value for it... sure, you'll get a book out of it, but it'll be full of all the mistakes you made and may even include some of theirs... and you'll have to do all the pr and selling yourself... it will never be sold in a bookstore unless you go there and persuade the manager to take it...

if any are 'ripoffs' they're aided and abetted by their victims, since no one holds a gun to your head to make you sign their contract...

aboyd · 12-15-2005, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

Vanity Publisher and Self Publisher are the same thing... they steal your money.

Not true. Milton was self-published, and quite famous and highly respected for what he did.

Vanity publishing works like this. A publishing company decides that just publishing the good stuff isn't lucrative enough. So they decide to fake it -- they start accepting EVERYTHING that comes their way, but they'll try to act like a normal publisher. They publish it all, with no (or little) discretion. Their idea isn't to get your book onto the bestseller list -- it's to get your mom and 20 friends to buy it.

Rather than sell a million copies of a good book, they publish 1 or 2 copies each of a million bad books. You see how this might cause such companies to have no respect in the publishing world? You associate with them, you taint yourself. Many editors will presume vanity-published work is bad by default, because it never went through a vetting process.

Self-publishing is quite different. You do not go to a crappy company and sell out. Instead, you determine to do it all yourself. You break the process down into small parts and do them one-by-one. So first, you need to edit and revise the work. You won't have an editor to do that for you. So you might pay someone, or put up chapters on forums like this one and hope for some good hard critique. Once you have the manuscript in final draft, you need to do typesetting. So you buy or borrow such a program, and you get the whole book laid out yourself. Possibly, you hire an artist to create a cover for you. Then you find a printing company -- not a publisher. This kind of company doesn't do editing, doesn't do design, doesn't do marketing. They simply have a big huge press you can use. You give them your final manuscript in ready-to-publish form, and they give you back 10,000 copies of your book (or however many you pay for).

But you're not done. A printing press doesn't sell the book for you. So now you move on to marketing. You write up a press release, and send it to many agents, bookstores, newspapers, and so on. You ask/offer to be interviewed on local radio stations, or to do a few live readings. You start to get orders, and you process them yourself. You keep this up until you've sold everything, or until you've landed yourself a legitimate book contract.

Self-publishing is widely respected by editors. It means a writer is working his or her ass off. It is the opposite of vanity publishing, where the writer basically shrugs his/her shoulders and says, "it's too hard, I'm too lazy, I want the easy way out."

-Tony

Nickie · 12-15-2005, 05:41 AM

I completely agree with you, Tony! After a few mistakes, I got to understand the business, and decided to self-publish my last book. I edited the text, converted the manuscript into a PDF file and had a friend design a cover. Then I sent it to a printer. We have a great deal: he only prints those copies I need, and it only costs me 5€ a piece. I sell those books for 15€, so I make a nice profit. I have been able to promote the story a great deal, as various national newspapers wanted to do an article on it, and our regional press even did two articles, the last only a couple of weeks ago. I also introduced my work with the libraries, and most major ones now have one or more copies of it.

You see, you can do a lot, when you do it yourself!

Nickie

Mike C · 12-15-2005, 12:12 PM

How many have you sold, Nickie?

Talia_Brie · 12-22-2005, 01:21 AM

Tony,

That is the best description of self-publishing I have ever seen.

Sensational.

I may speak to a staff member about making that a sticky.

CroZ · 12-28-2005, 04:26 PM

Though wouldnt all of that cost a lot of money?
Especially if you're in an isolated area with little or no access to everything that's needed.

Mike C · 12-28-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

How many have you sold, Nickie?

Sorry, I didn't quite catch the answer. How many have you sold, Nickie?

maggie · 12-28-2005, 09:45 PM

I can't speak for Nickie but I can tell you that I sold over 15,000 copies of my first self-published book and over 10,000 copies of my second one. I have self-published two other books and they sold around 5,000 copies each. In Canada, anything over 10,000 copies is considered a best-seller, so I can honestly say that I had two best-selling self-published books.

CroZ asked if it would cost a lot of money. The answer is yes, it does require a large investment. However, this was a risk I was willing to take and it paid off. Being in an isolated area today isn't as bad as it once was because you can do so much over the Internet, although it is a pain. I live in a small community of about 10,000 people and we are 120 miles from a large city, so I had to do much of my work in the city. However, my books were distributed nationally so that was a big help.

Mike C · 12-29-2005, 01:53 PM

I'm impressed by your success, Maggie. I remember from another post that you went into this with your eyes wide open and planned for success.

I ask Nickie the question because she regularly tells everyone how successful POD can be, and seems intent on remarketing POD books as a kind of publishing house, but is extremely coy about actual results.

mammamaia · 01-01-2006, 02:09 AM

maggie... how long and how many copies sold did it take to make back your investment and start to make a profit on each of your books?...

i join mike in being very impressed by your chutzpah and determination!

love and hugs, maia

ampersand · 03-22-2006, 12:53 AM

Tony, thank you so much for the concise and straightforward explanation of vanity and self-publishing. I saved your post as a text file, it's priceless!

aboyd · 03-22-2006, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talia_Brie

Tony,

That is the best description of self-publishing I have ever seen.

Sensational.

I may speak to a staff member about making that a sticky.

Well, I'm three months late in responding, but I'm glad it meets a level of quality.

(I can't get email subscriptions to be on by default -- I had no idea anyone had replied.)

-Tony

aboyd · 03-22-2006, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampersand

Tony, thank you so much for the concise and straightforward explanation of vanity and self-publishing. I saved your post as a text file, it's priceless!

Glad I could help!

-Tony