A Prospective Publisher at my backdoor!!! - Writers Forum

SeattleGhostWriter · 12-06-2005, 07:32 PM

Okay, last night, I went to an event that is usually held every monday night. While there, I was making rounds of introductions and reaquainting myself with people I haven't spoken with. In my minglings, I met a lady who is an associate editor. We got to talking about the writing life and careers. She is working for a publishing company - which I never thought even existed here in my back door.

The imprint is Mirrorstone. They publish young adult fantasy fiction, along with speculative fiction, horror, ect.

So, here is the website. Now, when you pull up the website, don't be surprised to know that this is belonging to Wizards of the Coast. The company that has brought magic the gathering card game. A major publisher of the Dragon lance lines (which, according to their website, are looking for contract authors for royalty and/or flat fee).

Here is the website.

www.mirrorstonebooks.com

To find the guidelines, you will have to click on the link for books. Then on the side bar link writers resources and guidelines. This is for the Dragon Lance series and Speculative fiction.

I will check further in this, but is reputable. Not sure if any here has heard of them or even thought of them as a publishing avenue.

Brasstwister · 12-07-2005, 01:45 PM

Thank you for the info, now I just have 300 more pages to write lol. I hope to be working on the 2nd Astrya novel by mid summer, looks like I wont be done on time.

Selorian · 12-07-2005, 02:43 PM

I've considered submitting something during one of Wizards of the Coasts open calls, but decided against it. They were someplace I once thought I would be glad to have as a publisher, but then I read some of their legal documents. Remembering that, I went back and checked them out again and found this.

Quote:

IDEA SUBMISSION AGREEMENT

The undersigned (hereinafter "SUBMITTEE") hereby stipulates and agrees as follows:

1. Idea Submission

(a) SUBMITTEE hereby submits the idea, material or creative work attached hereto (the "Idea") voluntarily and on a confidential basis, and understands that this Idea and its acceptance by Wizards of the Coast, Inc. ("Wizards") doesnot, in whole or in part, establish or create by implication, or otherwise, any relationship between Wizards and SUBMITTEE not expressed herein. SUBMITTEE further understands and agrees that Wizards, may accept or reject such Idea and shall not be obligated to SUBMITTEE in any way, with respect to SUBMITTEE's Idea, until Wizards shall, at its own election, enter into a properly executed written agreement with SUBMITTEE.

(b) SUBMITTEE declares and warrants that except to the extent, if any, the Idea incorporates Wizards' existing intellectual property, the Idea is original and contains unique, novel and/or public domain material. SUBMITTEE possesses all right, title, and interest necessary to enable Wizards to use the Idea without any license or permission from any third party.

(c) SUBMITTEE acknowledges that the Idea may be identical with, similar to the theme, plot, idea, format, or other element of the material that Wizards has independently developed or that has or may come to Wizards from other sources and SUBMITTEE shall not be entitled to any compensation by reason of the use by Wizards of such similar or identical material.

(d) SUBMITTEE shall retain a copy of all materials submitted to Wizards and hereby releases Wizards from any and all liability for loss of or damage thereto. Wizards shall have no obligation to retain a copy or return to SUBMITTEE any of these materials.

2. Waiver

Submittee completely releases and forever discharges Wizards, its parent, affiliates, and their respective past, present and future successors, officers, directors, agents, and employees, from all claims, damages (including but not limited to general, special, punitive, liquidated and compensatory damages) and causes of action of every kind, nature and character, known or unknown, in law or equity, fixed or contingent, which Submittee may now have, or Submittee ever had arising from or in any way connected with the submission of the Idea.

3. Miscellaneous

(a) This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between the parties with respect to the Idea and shall not be modified except by a written agreement dated subsequent to the date of this Agreement date and signed by both parties.

(b) I HAVE CAREFULLY READ AND FULLY UNDERSTAND ALL THE PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND I VOLUNTARILY AGREE TO IT. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties hereto have executed this Agreement.

Print Name: _________________________
Signature:___________________________
Address:____________________________
________________________

Here are the parts that bother me.

Quote:

1(c) SUBMITTEE acknowledges that the Idea may be identical with, similar to the theme, plot, idea, format, or otherelement of the material that Wizards has independently developed or that has or may come to Wizards from other sources and SUBMITTEE shall not be entitled to any compensation by reason of the use by Wizards of such similar or identical material.

This is what they tell a 'Submitter', before they have agreed to publishing but after they have had a chance to look over your story and concept. To me that says, 'We'll look at your work and if we like it, we'll take it as our own and you will never get anything for it'.

Quote:

2. Waiver

Submittee completely releases and forever discharges Wizards, its parent, affiliates, and their respective past, present and future successors, officers, directors, agents, and employees, from all claims, damages (including but not limited to general, special, punitive, liquidated and compensatory damages) and causes of action of every kind, nature and character, known or unknown, in law or equity, fixed or contingent, which Submittee may now have, or Submittee ever had arising from or in any way connected with the submission of the Idea.

Here they effectively say that whatever they do with your work (when they take the idea from you as set forth above), you have no rights or avenues to be able to take action against them. Ever.

I don't see how they can seem any more legitimate than most scams out there. If I was to do that with Sacred Twilight (the ezine and soon to be print magazine I started), I would be chased down and burned at the stake for it. I'm not claiming they are a scam, only that the wording gives me serious pause about sending them anything.

Feel free to pursue this avenue but be well aware of what you may be getting yourself into. You work hard writing, so make sure that you aren't going to lose it to someone that will make huge amounts of cash when you get nothing.

Brasstwister · 12-07-2005, 02:48 PM

Wow , why would they even need to put those parts on that form unless they want to stick it to ya . Is nothing sacred ?

SeattleGhostWriter · 12-07-2005, 03:29 PM

I read that Selorian and my only question is this. Here in the US, it doesn't matter regarding this, this contract would be voided out if you can prove that your writing is protected under copyright law and therefore nullifies this agreement.

I will check into this and see about this.

valeca · 12-07-2005, 06:09 PM

I think the problem lies in that if you submit something, you've effectively agreed to abide by those terms. They can get away with it with the bits saying, "SUBMITTEE acknowledges that the Idea may be identical with, similar to the theme, plot, idea, format, or otherelement of the material that Wizards has independently developed or that has or may come to Wizards from other sources..."

All they'd have to do is claim they'd already thought of the idea. It'd be hard to prove they hadn't and the submittee would lose. Not to mention it'd be useless to even attempt legal rangling about it...the waiver covers you trying to take any and all actions against them for any reason.

It's a little shocking that this is acceptable practice...but I guess it is. If nothing else, it teaches one thing: Read submission guidelines carefully.

SeattleGhostWriter · 12-07-2005, 07:10 PM

That is true. But the fact of the matter is, they themselves have developed similiar story lines out of all the books so it is basically contradictory. They have thought of everything already and triplicated the plots. Besides, are there not only 20 master plots in the writing? Go figure.

CroZ · 12-07-2005, 07:54 PM

I've read that should an agent/publisher decide to take your idea they can do so just as long as they change the characters or don't quote you, which is the reason why i'm never satisfied at hearing that you own the copyright once you write it.
If that was really true then all those companies wouldnt need so many lawyers and forms declaring that its their idea.

I think its kind of in a sense as in a love story you have
'boy meets girl'
fantasy has 'evil villain returns from 1000 year slumber while heroes try to stop him'
And anyone can use them, so any new idea can be claimed in the same way.

Breaker · 12-08-2005, 06:10 AM

You've got to think about the thousands of manuscripts that are submitted to these publishers. it's highly probable that your 'unique idea' is used a dozen times in some form or another, and they have to cover themselves should they choose to publish one form of the idea over yours.

While writing I've read a dozen books which make a point of some 'unique idea' that I've written into my novel, which has made me curse a little, but you have to accept that if you can reach a concept, then others can too.

I'm not saying it's not a scam, but it's unlikely that it is, more that they have to cover themselves, especially in this litigious age, when a failed author could make more money suing a publisher for damages because they 'stole his idea' than he ever would if his book got published in the first place.

Does everyone have to have a conspiracy theory? Bleedin' writers

Selorian · 12-08-2005, 08:59 AM

I'm not saying they aren't legit, and I'm not saying they will steal your writing. What I am saying is that the wording of their legal agreement is very interesting. The points above are valid points--I even say that there are no oiginal stories left, just new ways to tell them. It still doesn't change the fact that the wording is a cause for concern.

Also, as I said before, if you want to submit to them, submit. Just be careful, as you would with any other submission. Do realize though that if they do like the world you've created, they do retain the right to use it and let other writers do stories set in it--all without any further compensation to you.

As someone that has to deal with contracts all the time, I just found this legal agreement to be a bit scary. I'm not trying to create some conspiracy, all I'm doing is trying to warn people to proceed cautiously.

Talia_Brie · 12-08-2005, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Also, as I said before, if you want to submit to them, submit. Just be careful, as you would with any other submission. Do realize though that if they do like the world you've created, they do retain the right to use it and let other writers do stories set in it--all without any further compensation to you.

I think that's the key point here. WotC is a games company, which makes them a peculiar creature in relation to fiction publishing. The stories they support are those that are based around pre-established worlds, or worlds that can become established for other writers.

Can you imagine what R A Salvatore is doing right now? He created Drizzt, one of the coolest characters in fantasy fiction. He's kicking himself that he submitted here, rather than to a traditional publisher where he could have retained the intellectual rights to the character. Drizzt appears in all sorts of works and games that Salvatore has nothing to do with, and receives no compensation for.