'amazon.con'??? - Writers Forum

mammamaia · 09-24-2005, 10:20 AM

this now appears as the lead tout here:

Quote:

Services for Writers - Amazon.com Offers Author Initiated
Book Publishing through BookSurge www.booksurgepublishing.com

shades of PA!

Spudley · 09-24-2005, 10:35 AM

I think it was inevitable that Amazon would start offering a service like this -- other online sales sites like Cafepress have already moved into the market. It isn't just PA doing this these days.

Amazon may have an advantage over them all though, in that they already have a successful book-selling business, which means that they have an established outlet for the books they publish.

It is, of course, still self-publishing, with all the caveats that that entails, but I will be interested in watching how this turns out in the long run.

mammamaia · 09-24-2005, 10:41 AM

same here, spud... ditto your whole post...

i'm guessing they'll wipe out the competition fairly easily, since they now list all the others' stuff and will surely be expected to give their own authors a bit of an edge... whether they ever do or not won't matter, imo... desparate-to-be-'published' folks will assume they will and flock to them regardless...

Nickie · 09-24-2005, 11:20 AM

I must admit that the self-publishing business has made me realize some things.

First, if I do everything myself I get better results than when others do it for me!

Second, why not use this to make some money? I'm starting up my own POD publishing company next year, and hope to make more money out of than by writing. There are so many authors around, whose only chance is self-publihsing. I belong to a Dutch forum too, and they already have more than 200 members - who are all certain to buy a book, if it's written by one of their members. See the opportunity? I'll contract some of these girls (some of them are, actually, quite good) and offer them a fair deal. I won't take their money, but they musn't expect more than 10% royalties. And I plan to have a return policy.

Having "met" with Publish America made me realize where they went wrong - but also what they do right. If I avoid their mistakes and copy their other policies, I should be doing fine.

Nickie

Julianne · 09-24-2005, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

shades of PA!

Depends on how Amazon is marketing it. My issue with PA isn't that they are POD, but that they lie to authors and practice deceptive marketing. They build up an author's dreams, while at the same time, their business practices are almost certain bring about failure (meaning very few sales, and most of those directly to the author).

Some POD's--such as Booklocker, for example--are very up front about what they are and what they offer and about the realities of POD publishing. If Amazon is doing the same, then I wouldn't feel comfortable calling it a con.

Just my 2 cents.

mammamaia · 09-24-2005, 01:14 PM

hey, i was just joshing... didn't think anyone would think i meant amazon could really be a con...

Mike C · 09-26-2005, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickie

Second, why not use this to make some money? I'm starting up my own POD publishing company next year, and hope to make more money out of than by writing. There are so many authors around, whose only chance is self-publihsing. I belong to a Dutch forum too, and they already have more than 200 members - who are all certain to buy a book, if it's written by one of their members. See the opportunity? I'll contract some of these girls (some of them are, actually, quite good) and offer them a fair deal.

Nickie

Isn't that just scamming other writers who don't know any better? You're making money off (a) sympathy sales - you think 200 sales to a tame captive audience, who'd buy it no matter how bad it stank - is a good thing? and (b) PODing 'some of these girls (some of them are... quite good).

What you're saying when you suggest you're offering them a fair deal is that you'll be just as indiscriminate as PA, you'll print regardless of quality, and you'll profit from the unrealised and unrealisable dreams of others.

Trust me, you won't be doing anything better than PA. The closest you can get to giving people a 'fair deal' is to tell them when their work doesn't cut the mustard.

mammamaia · 09-26-2005, 07:40 AM

Quote:

The closest you can get to giving people a 'fair deal' is to tell them when their work doesn't cut the mustard.

that's true!... plus, referring to grown women as 'girls' is not usually seen as being respectful, could even be considered denigrating and patronizing... especially when the term is used by one who plans to hit said 'girls' up for a goodly chunk of money, by claiming their work is worth publishing...

but, if you're going to be up front with these folks and tell them their chances are slim-to-none of selling the books to any who aren't friends or relations, then i'd say your motives are pure enough, albeit self-benefitting more than altruistic...

Drzava · 09-26-2005, 09:18 AM

Would you have preferred she referred to them as old bags?

Mike C · 09-26-2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drzava

Would you have preferred she referred to them as old bags?

I'm sure none of us, male or female, like to be either patronised or insulted.

But that's trivia, even if indicative of attitude.

What upsets me greatly is that we have a situation where it's all too easy - too many people offering painless shortcuts, and a generation gullible enough to believe the hype.

Regardless of the way they operate their business, if PA said, at the top of their home page, and in big print on contracts - DO NOT EXPECT TO MAKE ANY MONEY. DO NOT EXPECT TO SELL BOOKS TO ANYONE OTHER THAN CLOSE FAMILY AND FRIENDS WHO DON'T HAVE THE SENSE TO RUN WHEN THEY SEE YOU COMING - how many would sign up?

How many times on forums do I see 13-18 year olds proud as punch of the fact that they've been 'published', even though they render the term meaninless and worthless?

I must be old fashioned; I believe in an ideal which I'm sure many now would dismiss as elitism. I believe that books should only make it into print if they're good enough. The old fashioned way, agents, editors, publishing houses...

Sorry Nicky, but I'm proud of what I write, I'm proud to associate with other writers who take their craft seriously, and I'm proud, on occasion, to work with/for serious writers to help promote their work. And you cheapen all of it.

Drzava · 09-27-2005, 02:13 AM

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

Nickie · 09-27-2005, 02:27 AM

Hi guys,

Never mind the comments. The genre is want to publish is - for the time being , at least - not accepted by the major publishers in our countries (Belgium-Holland). But lots of young (and also older) women want to read historical romance. That's why I came up with the idea of the publishing firm. Why not make our own books? It was also discussed in the group, and I'm sure to get a lot of help from the other 'girls' (in Dutch we say: meiden). So we know for what audience we write and what to expect. No major sales there, most likely no major profits. I'll be lucky to cut even, unless I find this gem of a book, that's very succesful, and that other publishers will want as well.
I've calculated that I'll be able to make a small profit when I can produce one book a month, and be able to sell up to 200 copies. But that's not counting with all the hours I'll put in, revising manuscripts etc, doing the promotion, ...

Nickie