discipleofWORD

I don't know how many of you are familiar with the Final Fantasy series or books dealing with magic and swords, but I wonder if anyone might know the "guidelines" of writing a fantasy novel(fantasy as in dealing with wizards, magical swords, and the like).

Maybe there's a good resource for it. The general characteristics of this type and so on. Maybe there are good fantasy books you would recommend.

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-C.S. Lewis-

journyman161

I'm more hard core SciFi, but I've read some stunning fantasy. Keep in mind the title of the genre. You aren't working in a field where there are rules & if you try to follow such you're more likely to write something that's pretty much a copy of other work.

The ones that have impressed me are the ones that are internally consistent. Also, beware 'Ulitmate' powers. You can write yourself into a corner where every situation is easily solved & you have to think up reasons why they wouldn't just use the U-power.

Try to work out a reason why the magic works; it'll help in finding new powers or things to do that don't leave your reader wondering what's going on.

Like good SF, good fantasy should ask for only one willing suspension of disbelief 0 ie. If 'this' is true, then all of 'that' follows logically.
eg. IF there is a gateway between this cosmos & another, then... But don't have cosmic gateways & demons & psi-powers &...


For an unusual look at fantasy - Songs of Earth & Power - Greg Bear

For a darker look at things - almost any of Michael Moorcock's work. Definitely anything with Hawkmoon or Stormbringer (a sword) in it. Stormbringer has to be the definitive magical sword.

Raymond Feist writes good stories that make his worlds seem real.

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*He has never been known to use a word that might send a reader to the dictionary - William Faulkner (about Ernest Hemingway)
*Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? - Ernest Hemingway (about William Faulkner)
*Thank you for sending me a copy of your book; I'll waste no time reading it - Moses Hadas
*He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know - Abraham Lincoln

MiloDaePesdan

Tip: make sure your magic system works. And that you have a working system in the first place. Flesh out the laws, the restrictions, everything that you need to make the magic work.

The hardest part will be trying to keep from blurting out everything about the system in the story.

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Gruush

I think one of the most common flaws of people who are interested in fantasy writing is to fall in love with the "technology." (In this case, magic, beasties, funny names and places.)

Make your characters and plot compelling. If you don't have that, it won't help if you have a wonderfully-defined world and magic system!

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Gruush

Talia_Brie

Read as much fantasy as you can get your hands on, particularly good fantasy like George R R Martin and Steve Erikson. You could also look at the Greg Bear reference above, or China Melville (who isn't as good as everyone says, but he does do some interesting things).

Read Tolkein, because he essentially created modern fantasy, but don't model yourself on him because his writing style is outdated.

But basically the best way to get a handle on wriitng fantasy is to see what everyone else is doing.

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geminye

DOW,

You should pick up the book by Orson Scott Card called, How to write Science Fiction & Fantasy. He covers alot of the guidlines one should follow when writing that type of fiction.

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Suffer the little children...

Talia_Brie

Ilyak's post, while bearly literate in places, did make one good point that should apply to most fantasy fiction.

Good fantasy fiction does try to balance forces of power.

But all that crap about Ultimate Power . . . I don't know where that came from and it doesn't apply to most contemporary fantasy, in my opinion.

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Talia_Brie

You sort of made that point with the bit at the end about balance. Just took you awhile to get there

I like your sig btw. That's a good idea

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Searching Neverland

Very good advices so far I think I add my 2 cents (actually two points... lol)

1: Never let the scenario slip
Maybe the most important one to make your story - well not exactly believable but smooth. One example - I do love Fantasy (good Fantasy) but out of sheer boredom (holydays with my family on the countryside - man I'm too old for that!) I read a fantasy book my brother recomemded me, which I would have normally let pass. (James Barclay - Dawnthief)

The story was actually quite interesting and gripping, but the dear author had a tremendous problem with staying in the scenario, what kept bugging me and interrupted the flow of the story. Examples? Like "Are you calling me fag?!" - that is NOW slang!, or "He gave him the middle finger" - seriously can't he come up with something more... other worldly? and the worst: "Oh my god!" in a world without a religious system, especially not one centered around one god.


2. Try to use magic in a more subtle way then in video games (a la Might and Magic, etc etc.)
I'm not sure if that is a valid point but for me it is. As soon as there is a story with people throwing fireballs ar each other i am highly tempted to put it away. Not sure why... maybe I have played too many roleplaygames etc - and in stories the whole thing should have a deeper feeling of mystery *shrugs* but that's just my opinion

luv
Laila

PS: I have downloaded somewhere a really good "guide to fantsay" which helps you create the world around your action to the best advantage - drop me a pm with your e-mail and I'll send it to you

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"... And I wrote the first faint line,
faint, without substance, pure
nonsense, pure wisdom,
of someone, who knows nothing..."

from: Pablo Nerdua, "Poetry"

Searching Neverland

*grins* thanks for making my point. I guess we just expect different things from fantasy literature... might have something to do with you being a guy, and me being a girl .

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"... And I wrote the first faint line,
faint, without substance, pure
nonsense, pure wisdom,
of someone, who knows nothing..."

from: Pablo Nerdua, "Poetry"

playstation60

Ilyak1986 you are very narrow minded in thinking that if someone with nothing more than a sword (no magic ability at all) cannot fight against someone who as you put it is epic, and has magic. Ever hear of a thing called surprise, or how about arrogance? Both of them can cause someone who is vastly superior when it comes to ability to fall to someone ordinary. Having power is one thing, knowing how and when to use it is another. Do not discount the power of cunning and ingenuity either.

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playstation60

First off, I want to make sure that you and everyone else understands that these are JUST my opinions, and are to be treated as such.

The presence of power, in any of it's forms does not guarantee victory. If you have battled in any kind of contest you know that there is NO such thing as guaranteed victory. Certain things give you an upper hand, and may make it easier to achieve victory, but never even under the most controlled circumstances can it ever be a given.

Personally, I would rather read about someone that has no obvious powers, nothing extrodinary about them at all then someone who is bestowed with massive amounts. The stories become predictable, and thus boring.

I think that part of the issue we are having in describing out our feelings and opinions is the definition of epic. adj 1: very imposing or impressive; surpassing the ordinary (especially in size or scale); is what Dictionary.com defines epic in the context within which we are speaking

Another important thing to remember is not to confuse video games and actual books. They are completely different and not everything that appears on screen can be accurately translated into a book, and vice versa. What works in one may not work in another.

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24,372/50,000

Aimless

One other thing that I think should be taken in to account if you plan on using magic, try to use it sparingly. If people are pulling rabbits from their sleeves every two paragraphs then it just becomes so humdrum: “Oh look, she killed that monster with another flash of lightening. Whoop-de-do.”

In my mind, magic should be special, something you bring out for the big conflicts. If there's no mystery behind it, what's the point? If fireballs become banal you may as well have your characters flashing steel rather than lights shows.

No doubt some people disagree with me, but I find magic to be wholly overdone.

Talia_Brie

Ilyak, the problem that I have with your preception of magic, and fantasy in general, is that it is completely based on roleplaying.

In contemporary fantasy (outside the Magic: The Gathering and Forbidden Realms books) characters rarely have 'classes'. Spells rarely have names, and magic is rarely the pyrotechnic destructive force you advocate.

I think you need to get out and read some contemporary fantasy to break out of that role-playing mode of thought. Try reading some George R R Martin (almost no magic at all), or Steven Erikson (has a fantastic, and completely original system of magic). Even read Magician, by Ray Feist, because while his books are also based on a role-playing universe, he has adapted it well without resorting to the RPG labels (Classes, Spell Names etc).

Your magic system needs to be believeable and acceptable to the reader. If magic is pervasive in the culture, then that's ok, but it still needs to be believable. Characters continually completing tasks by unleashing pyrotechnic magic will bore the reader very quickly.

While I'm not saying you should change your system of magic to suit my requirements, I think you need to be aware that it is not the norm in contemporary fantasy. The details you suggest are specific to your world, and your novel. You are expressing you opinion on this subject as if it is definitive on the genre, and in my experience it isn't.

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Talia_Brie

That's a farily solid response, Ilyak. I read it all, but I won't respond to it all. I did say in my previous post that I wasn't suggesting you change your story or world at all, just stop talking about Anime and RPG as if they are indicative of the fantasy genre. So, if you'd responded to that comment, I'd respond to you.

Having said that, you did say this:

which I will respond to.

Steve Erikson's magic comes from different sources, called Warrens. These are actually the arteries of the Sleeping God who created the world. It's a long story.

The different Warren's all have different characteristics. Some assist with the creation of illusions. Some surround luck. There is a death warren, and you can guess what you do with that one. There's a healing warren as well (Denul, IIRC). Each of the Warrens is affilitated in some way with a specific 'God' figure (there are almost two tiers of Gods, which you can basically consider Old Gods and Young Gods (Ascendants))

Most mages (never magicians for Mr Erikson ) have access to one or maybe two warrens. Mostly it's one. I think there's a handfull (High Mages ) who have more than that. And there's one character, Quick Ben (Erikson has the coolest names) who has access to Seven, because he stole the souls of 6 other mages. That's cool.

You use the warrens by 'unveiling' them. Whenever Erikson describes this I get an image of a huge tunnel opening behind the mage, through which pure energy roars. The Mage then directs the energy, creating effects.

If I haven't given you a good enough picture of that it's because the story Erikson is creating is 10 boks long and fantastically complicated. The interplay of Gods and Warrens, and a Tarot-like system called the Deck of Dragons, is just increadible, and impossible to really describe properly.

Oh, and you said this too:

For me it's fight scenes, mate, not explosions. I loved the swordfighting in LOTR, and Troy. I love the fighting in Jackie Chan and Jet Li movies. I don't watch Stallone or Arnie movies anymore.

But that's just me.

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