Cutting Edge Literary - Writers Forum

RebMel · 06-16-2005, 07:00 PM

is looking for writers and readers.

We need completed manuscripts that are ready for publishers. If you think that you have something that is ready to go, visit http://cuttingedgeliterary.com/.

This is a process. You are not going to be published over-night and we are not going to mislead you into thinking that you are. However, if you have a solid piece of work and believe that it would be received well by the reading public, this is a chance for you to build a reader platform and gain the attention of a publisher based on a solid sales expectation.

All genres are welcome.

Also, we are always looking for readers to help go through the slush pile (no pay - sorry).

mammamaia · 06-17-2005, 09:31 AM

"Also, we are always looking for readers to help go through the slush pile (no pay - sorry)."

then, why would anyone want to?... if you have set standards of experience/expertise [as you should] for those who read and judge the submissions, i can't imagine anyone who's capable of assessing the work properly wanting to do it for free...

i do all such stuff for free, but i do nothing for money... and i don't know of anyone else this weird...

also, if people post their work on your site, most legit publishers will not be interested in it... so, doesn't that negate your purpose?

RebMel · 06-17-2005, 11:31 AM

If it's not for you, mammamaia, that's okay. Not every writer is going to
'get' this site, or be interested in it.

As far as 'unqualified' readers - that's exactly who we're looking for. People that actually buy books, not editors or english teachers. We're looking for a manuscript's sales potential, not their literary award potential (I don't believe Stephen King has ever won a literary award, but he does quite well in sales).

As for the publishers, you would be surprised. Their job is becoming increasingly frustrating for them to carry out. Agents are doing less and less and editors are finding little difference between work submitted by agents and work submitted by non-represented writers. The pure volume of work to go through is crushing. Not one we've contacted has voiced a disinterest in what we're offering.

Thank you for your thoughts and your interest.
In Christ,
Rebecca
http://cuttingedgeliterary.com

Julianne · 06-17-2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebMel

and editors are finding little difference between work submitted by agents and work submitted by non-represented writers.

I find this hard to believe, particularly because "work submitted by non-represented writers"=slush pile.

From your site:

Quote:

PUBLISHERS: Access our Test Marketing Results from our Average Reader Program. See which manuscripts our Average Readers preferred, including those ranked, Anxiously waiting for it to be published so that I can buy it. Peruse individual reader comments and ratings. Contact writers whose work you may be interested in

Publishers have enough material (agented submissions + the slush pile) to go through without looking on the Internet.

Quote:

AGENTS: As a service to our writers, we keep a list of reputable agents on hand. The prospect of publishing contracts can be intimidating and many writers wish to have an expert helping them. You can join our list of Registered Agents and even offer your own editing services.

Most reputable agents don't offer editing services. Be wary of those that do. The following is from the Writer Beware web site:

Quote:

And if you encounter any of the following, be wary:

A referral from a literary agent or publisher. A reputable agent may tell you that your book needs work, and suggest that you think about hiring an independent editor. She may even give you some names to choose from. Be on your guard, though, if you're urged to use a specific editor or editing service. In such cases a kickback arrangement may be involved, a la Edit Ink, or the agent or publisher may own the editing service itself (perhaps under a different name). Either way, it's a conflict of interest--how can a writer trust a referral that makes a profit for the referrer?

Recommendation of a publisher's or agent's own paid editing services. Another conflict of interest. If the agent or publisher can profit from a recommendation to edit, how can the writer be sure that the recommendation is in his best interest?

Quote:

What if Readers shaped the market by selecting Titles to be published

Readers already shape the market--by selecting what titles to buy.

It seems like you do desire to help writers, and for that, I commend you. However, some of the statements on your web site show a lack of understanding about how publishing works. If you are serious in your goal, then I suggest that you do some research. Writer Beware is a good place to start. All the best,

Julianne

RebMel · 06-17-2005, 09:14 PM

Julienne,

Thanks for your time in looking over the site and your comments. We do offer editing services, but if you note, we do not require that any person use them. We do, however, reserve the right to deem a work not ready to be posted and suggest that a writer either rework it or have someone edit it. If they want help from us, we're more than willing to give it. If they wish to go elsewhere, that is fine also.

We are in business to help writers, so we thank you for your good wishes.

As for some of your other concerns about publishers having enough work to do (agented material plus slush pile) to be looking on the internet. We realize that also. That is why as we get manuscripts in that score well with our readers, we send a report to those publishing houses registered with our site, and any other publishers that we think may be interested. What we don't do is nag at them or add to their slush pile.

As far as the writers are concerned, here are a couple of their benefits:

1. They're not locked in by a contract. They can continue marketing their work any other way they may see fit, including contacting agents and/or publishers themselves.

2. If they wish their work to get a thorough reading, something very few publishers or even agents have the time for, our site offers a thorough reading by numerous individuals, and allows the writer their feedback. If they do score low, at least they will know why.

3. It allows their work to be looked at by the average reader. Too often critique groups, editors, and other writers look at a work from an inside the industry viewpoint that is different than how the general reading public looks at writing. It is like a group of magicians seeing a magic act, we know how all the tricks work. The viewing audience doesn't. What is old and stale to us can be perceived entirely differently by them.

4. Perhaps most importantly, if a book scores well, is popular among the readers, it gives a publisher some idea of its sales potential. And that, in the end, is what publishers are in business for: to make money. If we have something to show them that is going to make money, they are going to be interested.

Is everyone that posts their work with us going to come out a winner? No. But if a writer feels as though they haven't really had the chance to see if their work is good enough or not, it could be worth it. And if their gut feeling is right, if their work really is that good, it will be enough to make a publisher take a second, harder look at it.

In Christ,
Rebecca
http://cuttingedgeliterary.com

journyman161 · 06-17-2005, 09:56 PM

I think the concept interesting, but haven't had time yet to fully view the site. I'd be interested in what contacts have been made so far with the publishers. Without them on board the scheme (I think) will not run.

I'll be back to read more, but just wondered about the line under Writers
'We treat our readers with respect. If we make available manuscripts that are not polished,...'

Does this imply you treat readers with little respect? (

)

EDIT: Ah, then I got to the costs. I would want proven results before I'll pay to have my work read. I hadn't picked up that little detail. I think you may have problems finding writers with money to burn on getting critiques. Also, you're battling notes on every decent writers site warning of those who charge to read. I wish you luck, but as per note above, not for me at the moment.

RebMel · 06-18-2005, 12:23 AM

Journeyman,

I'm glad you find it an interesting concept. We think so, too.

As for the costs, running the site isn't free, not in time, energy, advertising or the site itself. You can set up a free site, but the advertising you are forced to subject you're viewers to is truly obnoxious.

Also, a fee keeps the site from becoming a dumping ground, where people are just submitting work without any real conviction that it is good, or any real effort put into it.

As a semi-compromise, we offer the Works In Progress, which is new. This allows a writer to submit as many chapters as they choose for a much lower investment and allows them to put their toes in the water without a full commitment.

In Christ,
Rebecca
http://cuttingedgeliterary.com

Kane · 06-18-2005, 01:12 AM

Sites are definately not free, but neither are they expensive. My website has 3 gigs of HD space, plus unlimited bandwidth and E-mail... Free E-commerce support, Free setup, free domain name registration, 24/7 customer service that has answered immediately the few times I've needed them, etc... all for 8 bucks a month.

Also, as I was reading about your editing services, I couldn't help but notice several examples of misspellings and poor grammar. That would definately turn me off to your service, were I seeking an editor.

RebMel · 06-18-2005, 09:39 AM

Hello Kane,

You certainly have a better deal with your web-site than we have with ours. I have, in the past, checked yours out. Very impressive, if a little intimidating.

We do have other expenses, such as advertising. Being a new site and still building our base, we currently advertise for both writers and readers. Publishers we contact directly, which is free, but time consuming. Also, the web building itself takes time and effort (as I am sure you are aware) and what you are able to see is roughly only half of the site. The library sections are duplicated for the publishers' benefit so that they are not forced to pass in and out through a password gate in order to access selections. Their area is secure because of the contact information for writers. Also, reader reports are kept secure to be viewed only by publishers, and once a writer has ten reports, s/he is given a special link that will allow them to access the reports on their work, but only their work.

As for misspellings and poor grammer: you may want to check our forum. There was a discussion there about word usage on that page, it may be the same thing that has caught your eye.

Thank you for your interest.

In Christ,
Rebecca

Kane · 06-18-2005, 07:30 PM

I checked the forum, and saw what you are talking about. However, Than can never be used in place of Then. They look similar, but are two totally different words. Than is a word which is used as a comparison. I am bigger than you. I have more muscles than you. I have less money than you. Then is used to denote order or condition. I went to the bank, then I went home. If you don't believe me, then you can check for yourself. (that last sentence might not even be correct, since you really don't even need the word 'then' in it.

But really, I don't know who told you that was acceptable, but it is a no go, fo sho. =)

RebMel · 06-26-2005, 05:15 PM

Kane,

Forgive me for not replying sooner. I do not often find the time to hit forums, but I did want to get back to you.

If you have a moment to hit our forum at http://cuttingedgeliterary.com you will see an apology to all for our error, which is precisely as you pointed out. I'll let that apology speak for itself.

Again, we thank everyone here that expressed interest in the site. We are growing and have some major plans in the works, part of the reason I was kept away so long. I will try to check in more regularly to answer any further questions that may arise.

In Christ,
Rebecca
Cutting Edge Literary Service
Cutting Edge Press

RebMel · 06-27-2005, 02:22 AM

starrwriter--

Cutting Edge Literary Services is a service for unpublished writers.

If you are a previously published (excluding self-publishing) author looking for a new publishing house, you are welcome to submit to Cutting Edge Press for free.

If you are an indigenous unpublished writer and incapable of paying the fees, you are welcome to submit to Cutting Edge Press for free. We will still, however, require that your work go into Cutting Edge Literary Services to be test marketed. We will waive the test marketing fee, with the stipulation that if we offer you a contract it will be deducted from your advance at the time of contract signing. We will only do this for writers that we, as a publishing house, feel very strongly will be a successful title for Cutting Edge Press.

That being said, our viewpoint is this, right or wrong: if a writer has sweated over his work, has revised, rewritten, edited and is confident that what they have is ready for the world to receive, a total investment of $200.00 to give that work a real shot with the reading market, and, if it scores well, nearly a guaranteed contract with Cutting Edge Press, is a nominal investment.

If, however, a writer is uncertain whether his work is ready, then our advice to them is: keep your money in your pocket and consider us five years down the road, or ten, or whenever it is that you are ready.

We do not pay readers because they are not being exposed to tedious, unpolished work of beginner writers. They're being exposed to work that is ninety percent ready for real publication and that we hope to be selling the general public in the near future. If we have to pay them to get them to read it, well, I don't think we have a winner there.

Also, Cutting Edge Literary Services is not an agency and we do not charge commissions.

Cutting Edge Press is a publishing house. For more information on it, you may go to: http://cuttingedgeliterary.com/Cutti...formation.html

In Christ,
Rebecca

mammamaia · 06-27-2005, 10:06 AM

it's still a scam, if it charges even one penny for anything!... no legit 'publishing house' will do so...

this sounds like some sort of hybrid pod/vanity press/con job to me...

RebMel · 06-27-2005, 11:10 AM

mammamaia,

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm afraid that what you are getting is a first glimpse of the future.

The volume of would be writers far out paces the capabilities of most publishing houses to give manuscripts a fair read. Many of them already require that new writers go through a charging reading service. The percentage that will accept unsolicited, unagented material is low, making it difficult for a new writer, no matter how good their work may be, to break into the industry. We have even had word that many of the larger agencies are now requiring untried writers to go through a charging reading service.

For those that would like more information, the link is above.

In Christ,
Rebecca
Cutting Edge Literary Services
Cutting Edge Press

valeca · 06-27-2005, 12:10 PM

Something doesn't seem right here.

Everywhere I've looked has said if you have to pay one thin dime to have your material published (excluding pod/vanity publishers), it's a scam - beware. Loud, blaring sirens go off and red lights flash all over the place.

Even submitting it for free and having it deducted later is still having to pay. The only thing I've seen acceptable to have to pay are copying fees and office fees (within reason), and even then, to the best of my knowlegde, that's limited to agents and does not include Publishing Houses themselves. This feels an awful lot like 'taking advantage of newbies/writers who don't know better yet'.

I don't see it as being the future. Neither do I feel it's my responsibility to pay for your time to set up and maintain your website...that's your investment in your company. The only way this would be reasonable to ask is if you've been contracted to do so...and even then, the investment would come from the company requesting the service...not the clients. If you're not confident enough in the site to take the risk on the investment of it yourself, why would a writer feel compelled to take that risk for you?

Quote:

1. They're not locked in by a contract. They can continue marketing their work any other way they may see fit, including contacting agents and/or publishers themselves.

Not if it's published with you. Even work posted on the net in general can be considered 'published' and has less of a chance of being picked up by a traditional house. Publishers are interested in 'first publishing rights'. Going this route, the writer loses them and is therefore 'less marketable' in the long run. As for no contract - it would be foolish for a writer to hand over their work to be posted on a site not their own and have nothing in writing about the rights, length of time, usage, etc. Very foolish. They may as well sign over all rights to their work right then and there.

Quote:

4. Perhaps most importantly, if a book scores well, is popular among the readers, it gives a publisher some idea of its sales potential. And that, in the end, is what publishers are in business for: to make money. If we have something to show them that is going to make money, they are going to be interested.

See above. First publishing rights. Publishing houses publish work they already feel has market potential otherwise they wouldn't be investing in it in the first place.

Quote:

3. It allows their work to be looked at by the average reader. Too often critique groups, editors, and other writers look at a work from an inside the industry viewpoint that is different than how the general reading public looks at writing. It is like a group of magicians seeing a magic act, we know how all the tricks work. The viewing audience doesn't. What is old and stale to us can be perceived entirely differently by them.

Either it's a 'workshop', or a publisher. You can't credit it both ways.

Quote:

We do not pay readers because they are not being exposed to tedious, unpolished work of beginner writers. They're being exposed to work that is ninety percent ready for real publication and that we hope to be selling the general public in the near future. If we have to pay them to get them to read it, well, I don't think we have a winner there.

If it's 90% ready (dubious claim) why do you need readers? I'm not sure why work submitted to your site would be any more or less 'ready' than work submitted to anyplace else.

This started out as a more of a 'good luck with your site' post, but the further I read, the more I see wrong with it.