Thread: Writers' Group?

I’m a new writer: I’ve been writing creatively about a year and I’ve made great strides. I was excited about WF when I found it: I was hoping to learn and grow as a writer by constructively critiquing and discussing others’ work in these forums, and having others critique and discuss my work.

Unfortunately, the first thing I posted was trolled harder than any other post I’ve come across on this site. It’s made me a bit reluctant to post more of my work, which I suppose was the Troll’s objective.

Maybe I'm asking too much: I know it’s asking a lot to have someone read and critique a 3,500 word story. But I’m offering reciprocity. My dream is to find a group of two, three, four, or maybe five other people who are writing short stories, novellas, and/or novels and who interested in helping each other. Do those sorts of people exist here? If so, let me know.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Charon

I’m a new writer: I’ve been writing creatively about a year and I’ve made great strides. I was excited about WF when I found it: I was hoping to learn and grow as a writer by constructively critiquing and discussing others’ work in these forums, and having others critique and discuss my work.

Unfortunately, the first thing I posted was trolled harder than any other post I’ve come across on this site. It’s made me a bit reluctant to post more of my work, which I suppose was the Troll’s objective.

Maybe I'm asking too much: I know it’s asking a lot to have someone read and critique a 3,500 word story. But I’m offering reciprocity. My dream is to find a group of two, three, four, or maybe five other people who are writing short stories, novellas, and/or novels and who interested in helping each other. Do those sorts of people exist here? If so, let me know.

Thanks!

When did this event occur? If it was recent, please PM the board moderator with a link to the thread in question and it will be taken care of.

I read the comments on your story. They're atypical of what you'll normally find on the site. Check out more stories and read the critiques -- you'll see that there are plenty of people here interested in helping each other. I know that's the case in the Writer's Workshop where I post, but I'm betting it's the same elsewhere. Stick around -- I'm pretty sure you'll find what you're looking for.

Charon - A search reveals that you have posted the beginning of a story and that this elicited only one response:

"I found the characters, Carla and Evelyn really unlikeable. The characters are cut-out cliches, but its just the first chapter so I can't judge them fully yet and surely they'll become more fleshed out later.
The story didn't catch my attention either."

If that is what you call trolling, then I would suggest that you need to acquire a thicker skin. You cannot post, ask for a critique, then complain when you get one - There is absolutely no point in we who post on the forum handing out chocolates and roses for every story/poem/lyric whatever their quality, if we did it would teach you nothing about your writing, but rather more about our integrity. What you got was an honest opinion with the encouragement that "...surely they'll become more fleshed out later."

Charon - I've just finished reading your story and adding a brief comment.

You need, perhaps, to be a bit less sensitive. When I was a kid writing for the local daily the editor would occasionally refer to an article I'd written as a bit of excrement, explain in colourful detail why that was so, and demand a rewrite. Had I been offended by his comments my career as a writer would no doubt have ended before it had properly begun.

Originally Posted by Charon

My dream is to find a group of two, three, four, or maybe five other people who are writing short stories, novellas, and/or novels and who interested in helping each other. Do those sorts of people exist here?

Try posting in the Writer's Workshop. The quality is generally higher there and you'll probably find what you're looking for. However, you should know that the critique you received, while brief, was not too far out of line.

I second johnMG's recommendation ^

Give the Writer's Workshop a chance. It might be just what you're looking for.

Also, I should say, you have to develop a thick skin when it comes to criticism. Often you may not like what is being told, but sometimes writers can become so enamored with their own writing that they will react negatively to anyone who doesn't also feel the same way.

The first short-story I ever wrote, the very first one, I showed it to a friend. She said, "I hate it. I hate the main character, too. It just was really bad and please don't ask me to read any more of your writing."

Ouch!

But then, I took a step back and looked at my story impartially (as best I could), and I realized that, while she could have minced her words a bit better, my friend was actually right. The main character was very unlikable, and the story was, overall, a pile of garbage. But the only way I came to that realization was by accepting her criticism -- taking it with a grain of salt, mind you, because not all criticism is fair nor accurate -- and looking to see how I could improve.

So, in the case of your story that was posted, I saw a comment that the characters seemed "cliche". This isn't a trolling remark, in my opinion, it's a helpful one.

I've been told in many of my stories, over the course of a few years, whenever something seemed "pointless", "cliche", "boring", "disappointing", "weak".

At first I had the same reaction as you.. feeling attacked. Now, though, I welcome those remarks with open arms, because it means there's something I can work on to make myself a better writer.

Cheers

So Sharon, two comments, first we all know it hurts when someone doesn't like what you have written but think of it this way: maybe that isn't who you were writing it for. Second: there are other places you can get critiques if you solely want a critique check out Scribophile.

Originally Posted by KyleColorado

I second johnMG's recommendation ^

Give the Writer's Workshop a chance. It might be just what you're looking for.

Also, I should say, you have to develop a thick skin when it comes to criticism. Often you may not like what is being told, but sometimes writers can become so enamored with their own writing that they will react negatively to anyone who doesn't also feel the same way.

The first short-story I ever wrote, the very first one, I showed it to a friend. She said, "I hate it. I hate the main character, too. It just was really bad and please don't ask me to read any more of your writing."

Ouch!

But then, I took a step back and looked at my story impartially (as best I could), and I realized that, while she could have minced her words a bit better, my friend was actually right. The main character was very unlikable, and the story was, overall, a pile of garbage. But the only way I came to that realization was by accepting her criticism -- taking it with a grain of salt, mind you, because not all criticism is fair nor accurate -- and looking to see how I could improve.

So, in the case of your story that was posted, I saw a comment that the characters seemed "cliche". This isn't a trolling remark, in my opinion, it's a helpful one.

I've been told in many of my stories, over the course of a few years, whenever something seemed "pointless", "cliche", "boring", "disappointing", "weak".

At first I had the same reaction as you.. feeling attacked. Now, though, I welcome those remarks with open arms, because it means there's something I can work on to make myself a better writer.

Cheers

I have to agree with this post. Helpful, friendly and still points out an issue. Don't think I can add anything else to it except to not sweat it, I know an author that had to do about a dozen rewrites of her novel before it got published.

Originally Posted by KyleColorado

So, in the case of your story that was posted, I saw a comment that the characters seemed "cliche". This isn't a trolling remark, in my opinion, it's a helpful one.

Maybe it's not "trolling," but simply saying that characters are cliché without an explanation or an example not only comes off as somewhat rude – it’s not very helpful either. I’ve been reading critiques for a while, and I’ve found that critiques offered by people who feel they’re just being “blunt” are often not very constructive -- and this is good example.

I work with creative people every day, and when I’m evaluating work, I always start with something positive before I go into what isn’t working -- then I make sure to wrap it up on a positive note. I know we’re all supposed to have thick skin, but that’s really the best way to get good work out of people. So if folks are really interested in helping people improve, then some effort should be made to deliver criticism in a way that isn’t discouraging.

It sucks to be told that someone didn't love your writing. The key is to keep your writing separate from your self. Although you may pour one into the other, they are not a single unit. When you ask for a critique of your writing, you will receive a critique of your writing. If you receive something along the line of "You're ugly and your mother dresses you funny," then you are the victim of a Troll and you have cause for complaint.

The purpose of a critique is to point out where your writing could stand improvement. Unless your name is Hemmingway or Steinbeck, your writing could probably stand improvement. Take the crit to heart, go back and rebuild using the critic's suggestions and see if you don't agree that the result was worth the pain.

Finally, and this is key, opinions are like a**holes: We all have one and they all stink. (Well, except for mine! ) You're basing your entire self-worth on one single opinion. Pick yourself up and resolve to get better.

Originally Posted by KarlR

Unless your name is Hemmingway or Steinbeck

They could each stand to improve a little too, I would argue.

Originally Posted by j.w.olson

They could each stand to improve a little too, I would argue.

Sir, you have offended me and I must challenge you to a duel!

I have to say that I'm in the same boat as the OP. I've only been here a month or so and I've never come across anybody who'd be interesting my writing before this, so I've been quite isolated. I've gotten a few lovely and quite informative critiques, but my skin is still paper thin and I must admit that I do feel hurt by criticism, even though I'm certain that it's all constructive.

I'd just say give it time. I'm sure that we'll both grow a spine at some point.

Here's a Hemingway thing I read once that I'd point out on a critique -- he wrote that one of his characters was driving down the road "and turned into a cafe."

Poof! You're a cafe!

So Charon, what is your response to all this mild and helpful advice, a lot of people have taken time and trouble to offer help.