At what point are you satisfied? - Writers Forum

lilacstarflower · 06-30-2008, 06:13 AM

I've looked about but can't find any thread that answers this question:

Have you ever written a chapter (or novel); had it tightened up, edited it as much as you think is possible and then finally given it to someone to read just to find out there are things they would change?

I mean, there is always going to be a few people who think 'this could be re-worded', 'there should be more description' and so on. So, at what point do you sit back and think 'I'm not going to revise this anymore, I'm going to go to the next level?'

Shen · 06-30-2008, 06:37 AM

yes, and i hate it. but still cant stop myself from giving it to someone else. there always would be somebody to think that what you wriote could be better if... and if you change X your story will be Y. you think one way, others - another. if one said it wasnt good, its not always true. the solution is simply not to give your work to none before you finish it.

cpickett · 06-30-2008, 08:34 AM

I don't write fiction, but the same kind of thing happens to writers of all kinds. In fact, I wrote about this topic in my last newsletter, and that is timing. When is it time to stop writing, editing, time to publish?

For mechanical editing, it is time to stop editing when the mistakes and typos are fixed. I believe, for writing, it's time to stop when saying more doesn't add anything significant or it starts to dilute what's already solid.

Yes, if you ask 10 people to review your work, you'll likely get 10 or more suggestions on what they would change just as you'll get 10 opinions on if and why they like it. This is true of just about anything that is subjective, art, music, whatever.

If you've told the story you want to tell, you are satisfied with it, it has been edited and maybe reviewed at a professional level, it is up to you to decide that it's done. I'm not saying don't get any other opinions during the entire process, but there's a time to stop, take a deep breath and say it's ready. Knowing when that is, is a skill too and most of us have to learn it.Take a step back and check, maybe you already have.

kip · 06-30-2008, 09:26 AM

I've never been one to keep editing my work endlessly. At any rate, here are two quotations I've found over the years referring to this:

Heinlein's Five Writing Rules. Science Fiction Writer Robert J. Sawyer: On Writing*— Heinlein's Rules
Clip of the 3rd, along with someone's interpretation of it:

Quote:

Rule Three: You Must Refrain From Rewriting, Except to Editorial Order

This is the one that got Heinlein in trouble with creative-writing teachers. Perhaps a more appropriate wording would have been, "Don't tinker endlessly with your story." You can spend forever modifying, revising, and polishing. There's an old saying that stories are never finished, only abandoned — learn to abandon yours.
If you find your current revisions amount to restoring the work to the way it was at an earlier stage, then it's time to push the baby out of the nest.
And although many beginners don't believe it, Heinlein is right: if your story is close to publishable, editors will tell you what you have to do to make it salable. Some small-press magazines do this at length, but you'll also get advice from Analog, Asimov's, and The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction.
(Of our remaining twenty-five writers, twelve will fiddle endlessly, and so are now out of the game. Twelve more will finally declare a piece complete. The twenty-fifth writer, the one who got chopped in half, is now desperately looking for his legs . . .)

And this is one from Borges...

Quote:

"If I had to give advice to writers-and I do not think I need to because everyone has to find things out by himself- I would give them simply this one, and ask them to tamper as little as they can with their own work. I do not think tinkering is any good. I think that the moment comes when one has found out what one can do, when one has found out one's natural voice, one's rhythm. And then I do not think that slight amendations should prove useful. When I write I think not of the reader, because the reader is of course an imaginary character. I do not think of myself - perhaps I am an imaginary character also- I think of what I am trying to convey, and do my best not to spoil it."

Typically, I write something. If I see potential when it's done, I edit it slightly--fixing mechanical errors, of course--and look to see if I can address any structural issues keeping clarity from the piece. This typically involves a slight amount of further explanation here or there. But I never attempt full-scale rewrites. If a piece doesn't work at a basic level, it isn't worth the time for me to bring it to one. That time is reserved for pieces I feel are nearly done.

Ilasir Maroa · 06-30-2008, 10:22 AM

Writers can be satisfied? I always figured they were just resigned.

Mike C · 07-01-2008, 12:52 AM

If you show your work to someone else for critique they will look for things to change because they think that's what they're supposed to do.

I work on the assumption that everyone else's opinion is shit, unless they are holding a check with my name on it. I know when something I've written is finished, and I don't go looking for critiques on the whole as they serve no purpose.

lilacstarflower · 07-01-2008, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

I work on the assumption that everyone else's opinion is shit, unless they are holding a check with my name on it.

Think I'll adopt that as my new philosophy

JHB · 07-01-2008, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilacstarflower

Think I'll adopt that as my new philosophy

Quickly, sig it before somebody else does!

Tiamat10 · 07-01-2008, 04:17 AM

See, I always like to get outside opinions on my stuff. And I know that's not just me because if it were, this site would serve no purpose.

However, I only do so after I'm satisfied with a piece. Never before because then I run the risk of letting others' opinions guide the direction I'm going and that's no good.

I think it's always a good thing to get an outside opinion, but it's not a good thing to follow every single piece of advice you receive.

To the OP, after I've done so much work on a piece and can't find anything major to fix, I submit it to a few places. If it's rejected, I revisit. Repeat as necessary.

JosephB · 07-01-2008, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Think I'll adopt that as my new philosophy

Critiques can be very valuable to a new writer. I had a knee jerk reaction to them at first, but soon learned how to evaluate comments and put them into perspective.

As I've gained confidence, I rely on them less. And as my writing improves, I get fewer suggestion as to how I might change things. And of course, I've learned what to take away and what to ignore.

I'm sure at some point I'll get a paycheck for my writing, until then, I'll continue to post my work. I may still post work, because I enjoy it. And hopefully, I won't be so arrogant as to believe I still can't learn something from others.

Regarding the OP, I'll never be completely satisfied with anything. I can't imagine reaching a point where I believe nothing about a particular piece of writing can be improved. I imagine I'd be pretty insufferable at that point.

Quote:

Heinlein's Five Writing Rules.

There are no "rules."

lisajane · 07-01-2008, 05:13 AM

I give my story to a select group of people to read once I'm satisfied with it, and they usually come back with ideas about where I can change it. If I think what they've suggested is an improvement for the story, I might change it and give it back to them to read again. Process goes on and on until I'm happy and my readers are happy.

JHB · 07-01-2008, 06:49 AM

I edit my stories until I feel they are finished. That is all.

alanmt · 07-01-2008, 06:54 AM

When I get to the point where I read it, smile, and think

"wow, this is pretty good."

usually that occurs after a lot of editing, and external review

JosephB · 07-01-2008, 07:23 AM

Quote:

When I get to the point where I read it, smile, and think

"wow, this is pretty good."

usually that occurs after a lot of editing, and external review.

When I get the point where I say "This is the best fucking story ever written!" Of course, I eventually sober up and have to rewrite it.

kip · 07-01-2008, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephB

There are no "rules."

You're a writer; I imagine you'd be familiar with metaphorical language. They sounded like guidelines that worked for the author, and not rules you, JosephB, and every writer on the planet needed to follow. I have no idea why people here go out of their ways trying to be clever.