The write word - Writers Forum

The Backward OX · 06-29-2008, 02:16 AM

I know it’s all been said before.

But I get mad.

When I joined WF, I was told by many that to learn to write one must read, read, read. Well, I reckon I’ve already done the hard yards; I’ve been reading all my life.

Reading teaches correct word usage.

Maybe I haven’t made my mark as a writer but it probably isn’t for want of correct word usage.

However I do wonder about some of the people who already pose here as writers. The errors I see constantly cannot possibly be made by anyone who’s a reader. Who’s for whose, rung for wrung, breaks for brakes, it’s for its, past for passed, there for their, lets for let’s, and not forgetting the execrable your for you’re.

And so on, ad nauseam.

Don’t any of you have a clue? Do you really think any publisher worth their salt is going to accept crap like that? They’re only looking for an excuse to bin your piece, and the first mistake like that they find, bingo, out she goes.

So why don’t you stop playing at writing and spend lots more time reading?

Mike C · 06-29-2008, 02:37 AM

We've been here before. People will argue that it doesn't matter, that they're only forum posts, and when they write 'proper' they'll spell-check and get the grammar right and make it make sense...

But I agree with you. Any instance where you're writing in order to communicate to others should demand your best writing. Anything less is sloppy, ignorant, lazy and rude.

Joe Moore · 06-29-2008, 06:15 AM

hey ox,
in your list of pet peeves, you left out the common inability to use the shift key.

joe

ash somers · 06-29-2008, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

So why don’t you stop playing at writing and spend lots more time reading?

*pffft*

at it again are we ox
worrying about everybody else
instead of worrying about your self > ?

you'd think the only way to be successful at writing
was to submit your godamned werd perfect dissertation
to some self anointed shmuck of an editor, who knows shit

*pffft*

tehuti88 · 06-29-2008, 11:37 AM

I fully agree with the original post.

This is the reason I don't critique amateur writing much anymore. The people I practically gave line edits to would snap at me to stop focusing on the grammar, they knew about that, they'd fix it later, just focus on the story. NO THANK YOU--if they know the rules so well, why not get their grammar and spelling right the first time?? Too many people seem to think they can skip the basics and it won't matter, but grammar and spelling are the FIRST things an editor is going to notice.

How the heck is a reader expected to focus on the "story" when there are so many common errors that should've been learned about in school, that they can't even see the story beneath all that mess?

Sadly, this viewpoint seems to be the minority nowadays, at least online.

I guess such writers will figure this out when they try to get published.

Ilasir Maroa · 06-29-2008, 12:21 PM

Leaving out the controversy over what really is and what really is not a mistake, I agree mostly with NTO, but I fear my attitude is more in line with Lady Ash. Who cares? Critique how you critique, and if the author doesn't like it, fuck them. (Pardon my English). All the bitching in the world isn't going to change anything.

ActivateMyAccount · 06-29-2008, 03:52 PM

Point Ox.

Taxiday · 06-30-2008, 01:14 PM

I agree completely with you, BO! No matter what forum you use, if you can't put it into good English, how can you expect to do it in work you're trying to sell?
Agents and publishers are so busy that, at the first grammatical error, they simply dump it into the circular file.

Zyphial · 07-01-2008, 02:05 AM

Don't forget that some of those apostrophe errors have to do with faulty education. Someone down the line decided quite arbitrarily to change the rules of apostrophies without telling anyone else and establish it as a standard piece of education for students across the country, so many (at least American) students received any number of possible "correct" uses of apostrophies. Of course there's a clear ruling for it in Standard English, but how many people do you know that reference a text on Standard English grammar for something as common as an apostrophe?

And published authors also make a lot of mistakes. I've read a number of books that made me cringe on every page.

Don't get me wrong, though; I still largely agree. It's a blatant demonstration of unprofessionalism to eschew proper grammar. Unfortunately I let myself get lazy at times and fail to conform to the established standards, but still; care should always be taken about grammar from a professional perspective (which is what publishing is about, no?).

The Backward OX · 07-01-2008, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphial

Don't forget that some of those apostrophe errors have to do with faulty education. Someone down the line decided quite arbitrarily to change the rules of apostrophies (sic) without telling anyone else ? and establish it as a standard piece of education for students across the country, so many (at least American) students received any number of possible "correct" uses of apostrophies (sic)

I'll give you this - you should do extremely well as a fiction writer; you have a most vivid imagination. That is the biggest heap of bullshit I have come across in quite a while. I won't even challenge you to quote me just one example of these so-called changes, it is so ludicrous. You simply made it up.

JosephB · 07-01-2008, 05:07 AM

Quote:

So why don’t you stop playing at writing and spend lots more time reading?

As usual, I see the all-or-nothing lack of perspective in this thread that I've come to expect from you OX.

I might have 3-4 errors in a 2500 word story that I post here. I do my best to catch all of them. I realize I never will, and so before I submit anything anywhere, I'll have someone review it.

Just because I miss a homophone or I leave out a word or an apostrophe doesn't mean I'm ignorant or lazy or stupid or that I haven't read enough -- or that I'm "playing at writing." And I am presuming to speak for some others who post at the Workshop.

So it seems there can only be two ways of looking at things. "I don't care about grammar, punctuation etc." and "If there are errors in your writing you are stupid and lazy." Get real.

Loulou · 07-01-2008, 05:28 AM

There is a large difference between a typo or two and laziness. I doubt even the best writer will produce a piece that doesn't have a few flaws, ones that a spell and grammar checker missed. A willingness to learn is far more important than anything. There are cases where things are incorrectly taught in school. I had an English teacher who said of the comma, 'if in doubt, leave it out.' Naturally I followed this for a time. Now I'm having to unlearn that. If a few typos make me, or anyone on here, a lazy writer, well then fuck me, I'm lazy. I read my work over and over, and still there will be mistakes that I miss. I produce an article a week to a deadline, sometimes two, while working on a novel and trying to occasionally keep on top of my short stories. I'm such a lazy arse.

The Backward OX · 07-01-2008, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephB

As usual, I see the all-or-nothing lack of perspective in this thread that I've come to expect from you OX.

Somehow, the phrase “As usual I see a perspective I’ve come to expect ” strikes me as just a tad tautological.

Har Har Har

JHB · 07-01-2008, 06:44 AM

Aaargh! The font burns my eyes!

JosephB · 07-01-2008, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Somehow, the phrase “As usual I see a perspective I’ve come to expect ” strikes me as just a tad tautological.

Congratulations OX, I had to look up tautological. I guess I don't read enough.