beaglegod

I was wondering what opinions some of you have as to how much of a plot you need outlined before actually starting to write the first pages of a novel.

In all honesty the past few days have been mentally fatiguing as I have struggled with various ideas or with no ideas at all, only now has a story and some characters started to form, but the picture isn't crystal clear yet. Its like being in a fog of war, I can see some things,I can hear and smell some things as well, I know theres a war going on but I cant make out everything thats going on.

Any idea I get related or not I jot down, a scene, a character name or description, a plot idea, and this is starting to help, I feel like I'm inching closer but I'm far from having it all laid out with a clear ending in view.

Dancer Preston

It really depends on your style of writing and learning. Some writers, I remember Jeffery Deavers pointed this out in an interview, some like to outline in great detail every single thing that happens in the story. Other writers, I would say more from the artsy school of literature would say that outlining takes away the thrill of writing; the outline makes it less of an art. Me, personally--don't take my advice as expert, I'm still struggling on my first novel--I like to outline it as much as I can. That way, I know where I'm heading. I also think it's a very good idea to outline, for the exact reason that you know where you're heading; you know the story--this is especially true when we're talking about a novel. I frankly think it is quite impossible to write a good novel (good is always a subjective word of course) without a outline. At the very, very, very least, you must know how your story ends.

That's just my humble penny of a thought.

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starseed

I did a basic outline of what I wanted to say and what I wanted to happen, but it's very flexible. I think I already told you in your other thread, but I spent much much more time on characterization than I did on outline. I got sort of stuck recently and had to go back to the start and change some things. I had the outline up until the third quarter and then I realized it wasn't working! Ugh. But going back to revisit the early scenes, when the characters were just getting to know each other has been fun.

I say, outline as MUCH as you can. You can and will change it, but it really really helps to have that direction.

beaglegod

Hmmm , I think the outline will take longer than everything else.
Especially if its a very detailed one, but I guess doing a quick over all general outline followed by a more detailed,opening,middle,and end outline,followed by a chapter by chapter outline would probably result in a crystal clear vision.
I think I'm starting to see how the process could be done in steps,slowly adding more definition until everything is laid out.

beaglegod

Yes point well taken, don't skimp on the outline. Are you writing down an outline for each chapter, or is it a bit more open than that? Like an overview of the book in larger chunks.

kip

Before, I used to write everything by the seat of my pants. But eventually I got tired of just writing stuff on paper and hoping it all came together. So last fall, I started using outlines on everything--even stories. It doesn't have to be hyper-detailed, but if you have some idea of what you want the story to be about, and particular things you want to occur inside it, it makes it much easier to go along.

Writing an outline doesn't mean becoming a slave to the outline; but it does give you a guide to the path. You're still perfectly free to explore without it, but if well written, it will always be there to guide you back onto the path when you get tired of roaming about without direction.

FWIW, I just finished a 5.7k story with an outline. My outlines for stories are basically a paragraph or two of images and conflicts I want in the story. The final story usually differs significantly from the outline, but it's great having that basic safety net before wandering out onto the high wire.

It's also a good way to make sure you have at least some idea of what you want to write about before you actually start writing. So many people start out and find themselves wondering WTF's going on 100 pages later. With an outline, you can get to the WTF point three paragraphs or ten bullet points later, instead of three months and thirty thousand words later, when you've already made a huge time investment.

My two thoughts. At any rate, I find it quite useful for short stories, and when I get the guts to try a novel again (I abandoned one at 40k last December, very sad), I'll be sure to outline it from start to finish before I put down a single word.

lilacstarflower

Personally I would develop an outline that captures the core events of your story: beginning, middle, end and write as much detail as you need to give you an idea of the path you want your novel to take.

Then as you start writing it you know you want to get from point A to point B so you can think up those as your going along. I think the important part is knowing the overall journey/message/conflict

The last thing you want is to have your story started and know what the ending is going to be but be completely lost with the transition

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starseed

Yeah, it's an overview in larger chunks. Usually when I get stuck I go back and work on the outline. It's mostly an outline of important scenes and how I can sort of make them flow together, but sometimes I outline certain conversations between characters. It's not very organized, more a mix of outline and random notes, but it works for me!

I also (this is very important for me anyway) have a notebook and a pen with me at my computer, and I take it with me when I go places. I make notes whenever I get ideas (sometimes a funny line or something will come to me and I swear, if I don't write it down I'll forget it and be really mad lol).

I also make notes on things to check back on later, which is pretty important when you are managing a big long story. Just little things, like say, I mention a fence in the back of a house at one point. Sometimes, in the start of the story I'll say its a chain link fence but later I may forget and describe it as wood. So I'll make a note to myself like "-Is the fence wood or metal?" and then when I do my rewriting I can reference those notes to make sure all the little details stay consistent. I have like five pages of those notes right now.

RomanticRose

My outlines are redimentary at best.

Beginning, several pivotal events that must occur to hold the plot together, and the projected ending.

I say projected ending because, sometimes the plot and characters have a vastly different idea of how the thing should end.

When it comes to the process of getting the story down on paper, I have trained myself to stop using the words "should, shouldn't, must, mustn't, right, wrong, good bad." I only have two categories of things related to the process of creative writing -- "works for me" and "doesn't work for me."

Find your process, it may take a bit of experimentation, but worry more about results than if it is how someone else does it.

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lisajane

I never write down any outlines. I figure out the main plot points in my head - work out where it will start, a climax or two, and a very vague idea of where it might finish. For a novel, I'll write down brief profiles on my main characters, and then I'll just get in and write it.

I started writing down everything for outlines. Then I decided it wasted time that could actually be spent writing.

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leradny

My outline consists of about five parts:

1. The Overall Theme: What do I want to do with this piece? Do I just want to write it because I haven't seen anything like it before? Because there hasn't been any good writing about it before? Is it just an awesome idea?

2. The Characters: Who's in this piece? Are there connections between any of them? What are they like?

3. The Opening Scene: Who do the readers meet first, and where? What's the conflict, and how will I introduce it in a manner that doesn't beat people over the head?

4. The Meat: Stuff in the middle. It's usually detailing the characters, their histories, and how/why they interact with the others. Yes, I know that information usually goes in the beginning.

5. The Ending Situation: Will there be funerals? Weddings? An ambiguous ending? Does it say what I want it to say?

I am one of those people who writes an outline detailing every single detail and then scraps it all with a well-timed burst of inspiration. Therefore, large amounts of organization (rising events, climax, etc) are not my cup of tea and I usually only write down #2 in any detail. The rest is in my head, subject to change at any moment.

But if you are insecure and feel comforted with the order, go ahead and write that extensive outline. Just be flexible and remember you may write something entirely different when the time comes.

Mike C

You outline as much or as little as you need to. Some like encyclopaedic detail, some not. I can name a dozen successful authors who sit down with nothing but a germ of an idea and produce a novel from it.

If you do plan, don't be a slave to it. If the story or characters pull you in a different direction as you write, be prepared to run with it.

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stevesh6

What is this 'outline' you speak of?

I usually just sit down and let 'er rip. Rewriting is where the work is done, I think.