starseed

Do you think it makes sense to just refer to your main character as "he" or "him" in the very start of your story, until someone mentions his name?

lin

Sure. Done all the time.

What I hate is openings like "Wally Wilderass smiled as he drove his late model Lexus up to..."

There are novels in which we never know the name of main characters.

Thomas Perry's first novel..winner of an Edgar award...was "The Butcher's Boy". The title character is never named. There are two main characters, a hired killer and a femaile official hunting him. When we are with either of them we are right there, in their heads, as intimately as any first person narrative.
We just don't know the guy's name.

And it just doesn't matter.

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Remedy

Yeah, it's been done. I read a book recently where they didn't mention the character's name until about twenty pages in. It was pretty good.

Personally, I notice it the most when it's used for a specific purpose. For instance, if the character is supposed to be secretive or blends in easily, his name isn't mentioned. If the MC doesn't know the name of that character, it might not be mentioned. There are tons of reasons to do it.

In Rebecca the new character's first name is never mentioned; she is referred to by her married name periodically, but that's it. You still feel just as connected to her, and she's just as much of a person; you just don't know what she's called. On the other hand, Rebecca is always mentioned. She feels like less of an importance than Rebecca; the latter has more significance, and thus makes more of an appearance.

Personally, I recommend cutting it out all together or putting the name in sometime soon after we're introduced to the character. If it's only put in halfway through the novel (assuming the character is the MC), it might be hard to connect this character with that name. Just a suggestion though; as the writer, it's yours to do any way you wish.

starseed

Exactly. I'm going for more of the show don't tell deal. My character, Devin, is busy bustling around the restaurant he works at, but I never say his name until he walks up to a table and introduces himself as their server. I feel weird, just announcing his name right at the beginning. It bugs me badly, I have no idea why.

Holy hell. That is SUCH a great movie. I was going to read the book long long ago and totally forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me, I'm adding it to my reading list. You are totally right about the symbolism there, wow I love that story so much.

He is introduced just a few minutes into reading. Like Lin said, I just didn't want to start it out "Devin Ashford was busy waiting tables, blah blah". Feels stupid to me. We don't know he is Devin Ashford at first, just like if we were watching it in a movie, at first, he is just some guy waiting tables until he introduces himself.

Mike C

José Saramago's Blindness never names any of the characters - of which there are many. And he won a Nobel.

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starseed

^Interesting. I'll have to read that to see how it's pulled off. I love writers who take chances!

beaglegod

What a great book, actually made me physically uncomfortable in some scenes, stays with you for a while.

Zyphial

Doesn't the revelation of the name really depend on the perspective? Characters know their own names, so it's feasible that a story from their perspective would provide the name right away - it's not something they have to learn, unless there is some odd circumstance like amnesia. And "He he he" or worse deliberate obtuseness such as constant extended references such as "the man with the green hat said to the man with the orange beard" can get quite annoying, especially if there are more than two males involved in the case of simple "he he he." Is it not more important to reveal the name when it's best suited to the story, rather than intentionally put it off?

I do think that the revelation of a full name at the first sentence is bad, but a reference name such as their first name or whatever it is they go by is quite fine.

lin

Yep. You probably should avoid doing that.

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starseed

^No it's nothing like that lol.

Here is my first few paragraphs. I know "he he he" can get annoying. Any ideas?

“Excuse me!”

He heard the voice, but attempted to ignore it. Maybe if he didn’t look, he wouldn’t have to respond. Maybe the voice wasn’t even directed at him in the first place. Maybe, he hoped, if left unattended to, it would just go away.

“Excuse me!” the voice continued, louder this time. It bordered on a yell. “Hey!”

He turned, nearly dropping the tray of drinks he held carefully on his arm. He found balance, just to lose it again when a giggling child darted past his legs, followed by another. The second one, a little boy, practically tripped him. He regained his center quickly, and was amazed and thankful when the drinks didn‘t fall to the ground. What a mess that would have been. He stood frozen for a moment, waiting cautiously for another obstacle, and tried not to glare at the parents of the children, who sat a few tables over and were obviously too engaged in their own conversation to properly supervise their offspring. Muttering to himself and giving in, he looked around for whoever had called out to him.

lin

OK, I don't think this is a big deal, but I just went through an ordeal with an editor who thinks like not two sentences in the same graph should start with the same word.

If you think the "he/him" palls, you can get it rid of it with cheap tricks.

(Easiest is the last one...just omit the last two words of the sentence)

Waiting cautiously for another obstacle he tried not to glare at the parents of the children, who sat a few tables over and were obviously too engaged in their own conversation to properly supervise their offspring.

Like I say, cheap tricks. THe dickhead editor bought them though.

A better way might be to use a narrative voice situated clos enough to the character to obviate the "he".

Lucky the drinks didn't fall all over the damned ground.

Christ, those are there parents over there, jabbering away without giving a thought to their little monsters running amok.

See what I mean? You can move third person in so close it has many of the advantages of first person without the disadvantages. And a thought stream like that doesn't need "He" or "I" to self-identify

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SilkFX

I'm sorry, but I find this (not naming a character until several paragraphs in) annoying. I've noticed it a lot lately. It's one thing when you're not naming a character at all (Rebecca is a great example) but I don't understand the point of stuff like this (using your example, Starseed):

“Excuse me!”

He heard the voice, but attempted to ignore it. Maybe if he didn’t look, he wouldn’t have to respond. Maybe the voice wasn’t even directed at him in the first place. Maybe, he hoped, if left unattended to, it would just go away.

“Excuse me!” the voice continued, louder this time. It bordered on a yell. “Hey!”

He turned, nearly dropping the tray of drinks he held carefully on his arm. He found balance, just to lose it again when a giggling child darted past his legs, followed by another. The second one, a little boy, practically tripped him. He regained his center quickly, and was amazed and thankful when the drinks didn‘t fall to the ground. What a mess that would have been. MATT stood frozen for a moment, waiting cautiously for another obstacle, and tried not to glare at the parents of the children, who sat a few tables over and were obviously too engaged in their own conversation to properly supervise their offspring. Muttering to himself and giving in, he looked around for whoever had called out to him.

What, exactly, is the point? Would it have hurt the story to use the name earlier in?

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starseed

^So Silk, in your opinion what would you like to see?

"Excuse me!"

Devin heard the voice....

^Like that? Because I personally don't like that. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.

Lin thank you for your advice. Now that I've moved further along in the story, I've sort of moved the third party perspective closer, as you say. I did it by accident later on in the story, and liked it. When I do my editing and rewrites, I'm going to use this closer perspective throughout, and it will help the voice a lot I think.

A question.. I find it hard to keep the voice set at the exact same "distance" from the character so to speak. Any tips on how to do that?

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lin

Does it hurt the story NOT to?

Critique by pointless pet peeves? Is that what we have here?

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lin

I don't see why you'd want to. That's the flexibility that allows you to do pretty much whatever you want to. And to bring other chararacters' thoughts, speech patterns, and viewpoint upstage when you want to.

So you've got like, "He was an insigificant spot against the sky-wide glory of the sunset."

Then like, "He looked at the flaming sky and lit a cigarette. Big fuggin deal, more pink clouds"

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