Swamp Thing

From - ZYZZYVASPEAKS: Bridesmaid Revisited

Bridesmaid Revisited

The major way nonsuperstar poets get their books published is by entering them in contests, usually being forced to pay a small fee, say $25, for the consideration.

Often the finalists and even the semifinalists are announced when the winner is.

It sometimes takes a while to hit the jackpot, as happened to Tony Barnstone, a professor at Whittier, with a couple of poetry collections and a handful of scholarly books to his credit already.

Red Hen Press in Los Angeles has finally published his ms., The Golem of Los Angeles, which, he acknowledges, "was a finalist for the Dorsett Prize, 2005, the Philip Levine Prize in Poetry, 2005, the May Swenson Poetry Prize, 2005 and 2006, the 2nd Annual Robert E. Lee & Ruth I. Wilson Poetry Book Award, 2005, the Ashland Poetry Prize, 2005, and the Prairie Schooner Book Prize in Poetry, 2004; it was a runner-up for the Cleveland State University Poetry Center Open Competition, 2005, and the Main Street Rag Chapbook Contest, 2002; and it was a semi-finalist for the Ohio State University Press/The Journal Award in Poetry, 2006, the Kathryn A. Morton Prize in Poetry, 2005, and the Brittingham Prize, 2004 and 2006."

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To identify the elements of style, perhaps we should begin by eliminating the idea of correctness.

- Mario Vargas Llosa

Malone

And he'll sell ten copies.

Sam Winchester

So he was winner and runner up for all these awards, but let me ask you a question, ST: who gives a monkey's? When he sells millions of copies of his work, then he has something to be proud of, and then he can say that perseverance pays off.

Sam.

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To those who live by and never stray from the creedo of "show, don't tell," here's a thought - it's called storytelling not storyshowing.

NaCl

Malone, Sam...why the negativity?

Whether he sells 10 copies or a million, why should financial gain be the sole standard by which his writing is judged? Is it wrong, or perhaps a failure of some kind, to write a collection of poetry for a narrow, but appreciative, audience? Surely, as a professor, he does not need profits from his works to survive. In fact, I doubt he holds unrealistic expectations of future riches.

I only see this writer as fulfilling a personal dream, and for that, he has my respect and admiration. How much more pure can writing get? Imangine! An author who writes from the heart, with little expectation of reward more than a few poetry-lover's accolades. I wish him the best in the future.

.....NaCl

Sam Winchester

I agree that some authors have sold millions of copies of their novel and are crap authors. Still, the amount of books sold is usually the standard used to judge writing. If it doesn't sell, it means it isn't good enough, or it hasn't been marketed properly. His writing may be world class, but if only ten people ever read it, what's the point?

Sam.

__________________
To those who live by and never stray from the creedo of "show, don't tell," here's a thought - it's called storytelling not storyshowing.

Tiamat10

What's the point? Um, to be able to say you've been published at the very least. Sam, you know I love you. Really. So it's with all due respect when I say this: how many times have you been published?

Honestly, the first time an author sees his work in print is a very exciting moment, and it's not at all dampened by the measly $5 paycheck. If it's money and fame you want, you're in the wrong business.

Sorry.

(Has anyone else ever noticed that saying anything harsh to Sam is a lot like scolding your grandmother? You feel somewhat sheepish afterwards.)

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“Lee Pennington has been published in more than 300 magazines—and rejected so many thousand times that in one six-month period he papered all four walls of a room with rejection slips.”

--Andre Bernard, Bill Henderson, Rotten Rejections

Sam Winchester

I appreciate that, I guess, Tiamat!

Actually, I have been published. Self-published, that is. Once. It means Jack-shit. Yes, it was a proud moment to see my name in print, but the reality of the matter was that I never really was a published author in the eyes of anyone who mattered. I'm not in this business for money or fame, but I'm not going to decline it if I'm given it.

I see your point, and I was proud of that moment. Since coming here, though, I've learned different. That's why I think selling ten copies doesn't make someone a successful author. I may be wrong.

Sam.

__________________
To those who live by and never stray from the creedo of "show, don't tell," here's a thought - it's called storytelling not storyshowing.

Tiamat10

Well, there are self-published authors who have sold millions, so it depends on which way you want to define successful. (Chris Paolini comes to mind.) I agree, selling ten copies doesn't make you successful, but it does get your foot in the door. It's a good place to start.

__________________
“Lee Pennington has been published in more than 300 magazines—and rejected so many thousand times that in one six-month period he papered all four walls of a room with rejection slips.”

--Andre Bernard, Bill Henderson, Rotten Rejections

NaCl

Sam,

I guess I feel a certain camaraderie with fellow authors. The richness of the writing experience defies logic. We all know that, yet we spend countless hours toiling at this craft, fully knowing the scant chance of publishing success. So, why do it?

In life, there must be some greater reward, some higher purpose, than simple $$$. Even in a narrow field like poetry, with it's minuscule prospect of financial gain, I feel deep respect for the contribution of fellow writers...like Barnstone. Are the rewards intangible? Unfortunately yes, but no less compelling. And, if there is any group of people on Earth who should applaud such an effort, it's fellow writers who share the angst.

That's my point. A writing forum, should be a place for constructive criticism. I saw none in the posts I questioned. In a place where there should be respect for the success of a fellow writer...regardless of how financially insignificant...there was only predictions of financial/commercial failure.

Sam, when you ask me, "What's the point?", your question disregards all success-standards except $$$. To me, that's a sad commentary coming from a person whom I, otherwise, consider to be enlightened and motivating on this forum.

.....NaCl

ps Enjoyed your writing about having a bad day!

Swamp Thing

He's a professor at a small college east of Los Angeles. No one ever expects to make money off of poetry. But in the professorial world it's publish or die.

After all the near hits, to get published is a godsend for a poet and a professor of poetry. Red Hen is not close to self publishing. I don't think y'all critics are poets and maybe this is the wrong forum. But to be recognised, even with 800 copies of your book of poetry is a success.

Actually, a great success and might mean tenure or continued job.

My point was, never give up, in poetry, shorts or novels. If you don't the lottery will come your way some day.

__________________
To identify the elements of style, perhaps we should begin by eliminating the idea of correctness.

- Mario Vargas Llosa

strangedaze

Having that book published means he can get tenure.

Fuck, I see Swamp Thing beat me to it.

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'First I lick the mucilage - it's kind of sexy. I put the little metal diddle through the hole.'

- Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country

Sam Winchester

I'm not saying that I write just to earn money. I wish that was the case. I am very proud of the fact that I self-published, but no one other than me and my close friends and family have actually bought the book, so that, to me, is not success. The guy was nominated for all these awards, which makes him a success in his field, but if he never sells more than a hundred copies, that, in the general scheme of things, would not be a success. He will still be a success, just not mainstream.

If my posts were inappropriate, I apologise.

Having a "weird" day or me having a "bad" day. I think I had two threads like that.

Sam.

__________________
To those who live by and never stray from the creedo of "show, don't tell," here's a thought - it's called storytelling not storyshowing.

ash somers