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Old 04-26-2008, 11:14 PM   #1
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I don't know what I'm doing. Help.

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Last edited by phu : 05-19-2008 at 04:07 PM. Reason: paranoia
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Old 04-26-2008, 11:56 PM   #2
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I like that you wrote an honest reflection about your writing. It's a great way to start maximizing your talent and your craft.

Quote:
- Dialogue. I completely suck at this. I mainly do fanfiction, so I have to work with existing characters. While I do know what these people would or wouldn't do (I yell the loudest when I detect any OOC) I have no idea what exactly to put into their mouth. So far every line I've come up with sounds so corny it's not even funny, which is why I prefer to stick with narrative.
Learn about what the subtext is and how we never really say what we mean. This allows the reader to "read between the lines" and discover the true meaning. When you place yourself in your characters' shoes, you have to know what each character wants at the moment, what the obstacle is, how they're planning to get it, and reveal that in the dialogue. This type of dialogue is convincing.

Here is a tutorial I wrote with some examples that might be helpful to you and will illustrate how the subtext works. I think this will help your writing to soar.
Quote:
Also, how do you write a conversation between three characters without mentioning their names all the time? It really becomes annoying especially because the fandom I'm working in has unusual names.
Show a little action...maybe, "Grizelda scratched her ear. "I go it! We eat the marshmallows!" That way you don't always have to write "Grizelda said." You'll find how to do this on your own and get a feeling about it. But maybe only do when it's not obvious.
Quote:
- Plot. Because I'm terrible at writing convincing dialogue, my stories tend to be reflective summaries where nothing really happens. I do like to explore the psychology of some of the characters, but only sometimes.
Do you know the plot in advance? It seems like your characters don't have anything to do because they have nothing to do. Each scene must have a goal that they achieve or not that sets them onto the next scene. And you need conflict and obstacles. While internal thoughts are fine for some authors, most people don't care to read so much internal thought if the plot isn't racing by. You need to know your plot and continue to advance it, even while writing internal thoughts.
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I just have a really bad tendency to focus too much on a character's thought process when I write. I can go on for pages writing about what X thinks and what X feels and why he does the things that he does, but God forbid X actually does something to advance the plot. I tried to skip describing the characters in too much detail once, but they became amazingly one-dimensional. I guess I don't know the line between not enough and too much?
One of the themes that I see you're lacking is letting the reader figure it out on his own. When your reader figures it out, it's far more enriching and enjoyable.

If you build the subtext correctly, your reader will know what's happening and be able to deduce the reasonings. You don't have to explain anything. Let the subtext do it.
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Last edited by astralis : 04-27-2008 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:06 AM   #3
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Quote:
I've compared them to my old stories (the ones I wrote in high school), and my old stories are a LOT better no matter which angle look at them from.
There's a bright side at least; if your old stories you find much better then it shows that at the very least you're capable of writing great things, maybe because of the time lapse you've just lost that frame of mind you had back then? You might find reading your old work right before you start your new ones might help, because that way your old style is fresh in your mind when you start something new, it might help you get that 'better' writing back.

Quote:
- Dialogue. I completely suck at this. I mainly do fanfiction, so I have to work with existing characters. While I do know what these people would or wouldn't do (I yell the loudest when I detect any OOC) I have no idea what exactly to put into their mouth. So far every line I've come up with sounds so corny it's not even funny, which is why I prefer to stick with narrative.
If you have a trouble with dialogue sometimes it helps to read the dialogue aloud. It might sound pretty basic but it helps because if it doesn't sound natural to say it won't be natural to read. As for actually writing stuff that isn't 'corny' maybe you could try listening to the people around you or on films etc. it might help you get a feel for what's natural with speech and what isn't.

Sorry if my advice isn't too good but I hope it helps. As for your questions on plot I'm not too sure what to say, but Astralis made some really good points, so I guess that should help you anyway, lol.
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:32 AM   #4
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Hi Phu, It sounds like you're not really interested in the fan fiction. Maybe you should write a short story about something that would be great fun for you. You and a friend caught in some dangerous or embarrassing situation that you have to get out of.

Just take an hour or so, and write as much description, action, and dialog as you can. Don't edit it or worry about it; just write for fun. Maybe that will get your creative juices flowing again.

If you did it before, you can certainly do it again.
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Old 04-27-2008, 08:19 AM   #5
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Do you post your work on fanfiction.net? If you do you could post a link to your more recent work. It would be easier to offer advice if we could see what was wrong. Looking at the problems you're having in the context of the rest of your work would probably help us to give you better advice. ^.^
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Old 04-27-2008, 11:00 AM   #6
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I don't know what I'm doing.
Have no fear, my dear. We're here, we're here to steer you clear.
By totally confusing you until you don't know which end is up.

Let me start out with a possibility you need to keep in mind; sort of a baseline. It's very possible you just aren't very good with words and never will be and should develop other means of self-expression.

That said, let me warn you against trying to solve your problem by delving into books and tutorials and learning lame-o terminology. Looking up the word "subtext" will do nothing for you, and in fact it appears from your post that one of the things already crippling your dialog is having too MUCH inner activity get in the way of people talking.

Let me suggest that you try handling this by making the activity more natural, rather than more arcane. By getting to know your characters and walking them around.

The best place to write, especially when you have problems, is not at the keyboard. It's out walking around, bicycling, etc. Something about rhythm and motion gets things going. Showers and running water often help, as well.
More specifically, you're out strolling on the beach or wherever and what you're doing is thinking about your people talking to each other.

Don't you already do this with real life? Cruising around replaying conversations and what you should have said, etc?

You know how Wolverine reacts, how he feels about people. Or how Harry feels about Cho or whatever, so run down some skits. Just blithering around in your head.

You know how these people talk, not just what they say, from your reading. Try setting things up. Cho tells Hagrid Harry knocked her up: how's he going to react?
Etc.

This is helpful...I would say necessary...as a step towards making your own characters.
In fact, you might try doing that instead of fanfic. You might find out that characters based on your real-life friends, families, admired singers, etc would have more interesting things to say than your copies of other people's stuff. Give it a shot. If it works better for you, you win BIG.

Regarding dialog, you don't have to use the names all the time. Especially in one-on-one situations. If a man and woman are talking, "he" and "she" are all you need, right?

And you don't need to have "said" tags for everyspeech because it's often obvious who is talking.
"I don't think this all my fault," he said, but couldn't meet her eyes.
"So it's my fault?"
"Well, no, it's more like...circumstance"
"What does cutting off tips of penises have to do with this."

You know who is talking is my point. Read book dialog more carefully and watch how they do it.

Re inner psychology, etc. It's not that hard to get away from spieling it out. Try either popping into lines that serve other purposes
Quote:
"He wadded the wrapper and tossed it onto the lawn. Oh, ever the rebel, she thought."
See, if that was the first line of a story you'd know something about both characters and their relationship right there.
Or stating from character's unspoken POV.
Quote:
He stood in his defensive pimp pose, looking around the mall. What a capitalistic piece of shit. Everybody trying to buy up a life for 20 percent off.
Again, no quotes, no narration. The character is telling you what he's seeing and who is seeing it very simply and economically.
For that matter, dialog usage is a matter of style. I'm reading a Richard Condon book the guy next door left for me and the first chapter is 6 pages long. The first three pages have ONE line of dialog. The fourth page is almost entirely a dialog between a man and woman. There are TWO "said" lines in that dialog, the rest is unattributed speeches. The last two pages contain no dialog at all.
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Old 04-27-2008, 11:08 AM   #7
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By the way, you've got three people talking, you can still get away with out "said tags" if it's obvious who's tallking.
If we know who a question is directed to, we know who answers, generally.
We can know that several ways:
--they're the obvious one because the question is about what they just said ( "So how do you know that?" etc)

--they are named in the question ("How about you, Harry?"

--one character is the "odd one out" sexually, so can be called "he" or "she"

--use of a characterization rather than name (She turned on the older woman and screamed, "No way!" Or sergeant, headmaster, little asshole, etc)

--use of more subtle and useful reference that helps the line serve double purpose, which is always a good thing.
(He looked at him, thinking, Easy for some rich boy to laugh this off, but said only, "Well, that's a plan, then.")

Good luck
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Old 04-27-2008, 11:44 AM   #8
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Last edited by phu : 05-19-2008 at 04:07 PM. Reason: paranoia
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