Sam Winchester

Did King, Koontz, Clancy, Joyce, Deaver, etc... take creative writing classes? I think you'll find the answer to that question is no. Did I? Yes. I spent almost two-hundred pounds of my money taking a creative writing class. Do you know what it did for me? Sweet f**k all. I was already one of the best in the class before he even started the course. He didn't teach me how to be creative. I already knew. It was pointless and a waste of time and money.

There is NO secret guide to becoming a better writer. It doesn't work like that, Strangedaze. If it did, we all wouldn't be on this forum.

Sam.

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To those who live by and never stray from the creedo of "show, don't tell," here's a thought - it's called storytelling not storyshowing.

astralis

Sam,

I agree with your sentiments, and most definitely about creative writing classes. But, I think that storytelling is the real issue that gets lost in the discussion. I believe storytelling can be learned as an art for those who have a bit of talent. Those who have a talent for painting or music still take classes and learn to maximize their craft and this is the way storytelling was done before the 1960s before creative writing took the place of it. Instead of learning about the quest and explicit storytelling, academia switched to teaching the intrinsics of writing such as author intent and other obscurities such as gender identity which don't inform you how to write a story. I don't find it any coincidence that the end of the golden age of American cinema, stage, and novels ended in the 1960s.

Writers such as Clancy, King, and Koontz all had the talent and they maximized their craft of storytelling by reading and unconsciously learning how to tell a story. Imagine what these writers could have done if they grew up taking courses in storytelling?

I think it's important that all writers treat writing as an art and maximize their talent by learning the craft of storytelling by reading, studying stories, and discovering explicitly how to write a story. Creative writing classes won't do that for you, though.

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How to write a story

lin

Actually, journalism doesn't teach "storytelling". But the classes and contacts there are useful in working in journalism, where there are thing you need to know about the kind of writing done and how the business works.

Not true of creative writing.

ash, if you have something to say in response other than obscure eye rolling and cute evasions, spit it out.

Again, all you guys who learned how to write in college... how's it working for you? You earning a living from your investment in a college degree?

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astralis

Yes, I earn a living writing and my studies in university led me here, I truly believe. While I hate paying these student loans, I don't regret it.

Journalism does teach storytelling, but it isn't the most ideal form. As a journalist, you are taught how to tell your readers a story about what is happening. Obviously, a course in fiction storytelling would be superior, but at least this is something -- far better than creative writing courses.

There is one place that storytelling is still explicitly taught: film schools.

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How to write a story

ash somers

yeah right, what a cheek *pffft*

lin

So, in other words, you DON'T have anything to say.

Astralis, I agree. And it's good that you mention that you're selling work. New writers get confused by conflicting advice and blather in these things and it's good to give them a little baseline on the value of the advice.

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lin

They might have just ended up paralysed by over-intellectualism. I've seen it happen to some promising people.

Whether or not creative writing courses help one learn to write, which I doubt rather completely, one thing is absolutely, definitely, inequivicably factual: you don't NEED it to be a great writer and the majority of great writers did not take such courses.

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ash somers

considering your rudeness, no

i have nothing further to say

to you, not now, nor ever !

lin

I didn't get the impression you had much to say anyway, mostly little tics and obscure buzzes.

I mean, not that we won't miss them, or they didn't add a lot to the discussion.

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ash somers

we > ? what, you speak the queens english, now > ?

no, i wont miss your smart alec, brown nosing remarks

not one fucking bit *clicks profile & hits ignore button*

lin

Promises, promises.

Why is everybody brandishes the "Ignore Button" around like it's some sort of fearsome weapon or deep shame. What part of "ignorance" is lost in the works?

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Hawke

How about we get back on topic now, please.

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*There are three rules for writing a novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.~W. Somerset Maugham
*We write to say, I was here--even if only to ourselves.~Chris Miller

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A Vaulter's Insanity

So basically this is what I got from reading this thread.

If you have natural talent in writing and think your all bad-a then a creative writing class isnt going to help you. (either because they're pointless or your too ignorant to listen)

If your not varied in your writing then its going to help you immensely and introduce you to new styles. But if it does help you then it probably means that you just weren't all that great in the first place and no amount of teaching and practice can help you anyways.

But most importantly, make sure you have a good teacher.

Anyone disagree?

I gotta say that just because someone isnt all that great of a writer at first doesnt mean that they cant become a good writer. Theres no such thing as natural talent, just talents that you earn through experiences.

Id say the best way to become a better writer is too just write. Write some more. And then double that. And if a creative writing class makes you do that, then I think it would be good for you unless your teacher is a total moron and wants to confine you

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Art is a lie that helps us see the truth

lin

That's a complete crock, of course. Is this true in music? Sports? Dance? Painting?

There are not talented people who just pick up instruments and play them or always ran faster and more surefooted than others? Just a bunch of schlubs who it they try hard enough and have the right coaching can make the pros?

Do you really believe that or are just saying it because it sounds good or tryin to sell yourself on it?

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lin

By the way, the idea that it takes classes to see and learn new styles is obviously crap. You pick up a book and read it and you see the style. Maybe you try to write in that style. There is almost nothing anybody can tell you about how to do that, it's like "doing" an Irish accent or something. Some have an ear for it, some don't. But there isn't anybody who can tell you how to do it. Much less "introduce you to it" in a class.

I'm continually astounded by the things people say on this topic. I can never tell whether they actually believe them or what? It's kind of depressing, actually,

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