Spelling and Gramer Nazis - Writers Forum

mi is happy · 03-29-2008, 06:23 PM

I'm kinda jacking the thread "Why all the obsession about grammar in the critique and advice section", but why are people on this forum so crazy about spelling and grammar mistakes? We are writers, and writers screw up. If you want to be so picky about that crap: be an editor and join editingforums.com or something like that. You aren't helping anyone by telling them that their work sucked because they didn't capitalize John.

Remedy · 03-29-2008, 06:35 PM

Some people actually like to be critiqued on their grammar usage.

I'll be right up front about it: bad spelling and grammar really detract from the story if I'm trying to read it. I'm sure it's not a problem for everyone, but I get really distracted by those things, especially if you repeatedly don't capitalize 'John.' Instead of being a more flowing read that I can lose myself in, it becomes a mishmash of grammatical errors, and I stop and notice each one. It's just how I am.

Everyone screws up, yeah. But there's a difference between screwing up once or twice and doing it every single time. If it's just one mistake, I might overlook it; I assume you'll catch it when you go over it (or maybe not, and if I think you might not go over it again (a final draft or something), I'll point it out). However, if it's frequently a problem, I'll usually think that maybe you just don't know better, and then I'll point it out. Or maybe you do know better, but it's distracting.

If you're posting your work for critique, people are going to suggest things that you can edit, including grammar; that's kind of part of it. I am a bit of a grammar nazi, and yeah, I'll admit it, but I'm also a writer, a published writer, so clearly my grammar nazi tendencies aren't screwing up my work. On the other hand, I would suck as an editor, because it's just not something I get into.

'Your work sucks' is never a good critique, and if that comes up, it's a problem with the specific person reviewing, not what she/he bases it on.

If it bothers you to have incorrect grammar and spelling pointed out, why not just ask for people to not critique you on that when you post work? They should respect that.

mi is happy · 03-29-2008, 06:50 PM

To clarify things, I am not asking for advice, I am giving it. I don't need help with my problems in spelling because I have had to deal with it all my life.

RomanticRose · 03-29-2008, 06:56 PM

I don't post work here (except for one small poem) because it goes through two real-time writing/critique groups and a hand selected group of beta readers. I never submit a first draft for critique so I do want to know about any mechanical errors I missed on my editing pass.

Just put on work that you don't want them to crit your mechanics. No reason to assume that no one wants to know about theirs.

Sam Winchester · 03-29-2008, 07:03 PM

By the way, that title should be 'spelling and grammar'. Yes, I am another s&p Nazi. You say you don't need help with your problems in spelling - wrong. Everyone on here needs help, otherwise they wouldn't be here. Spelling and grammar is an integral part of writing. If you don't have it, your writing will suffer because of it. If you submit a novel to an editor with spelling and grammar mistakes, he will gladly chuck it in the trash, without even as much as a blink. And, as Remedy said, if you don't want your spelling and grammar critiqued, post an 'author's note' stating this fact.

Sam.

Remedy · 03-29-2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mi is happy

To clarify things, I am not asking for advice, I am giving it.

What exactly is your advice then? Not to be mean, but I really don't see it.

Critiquing or not doing such about grammar is a personal thing. Some people like having it done, some don't.

mi is happy · 03-29-2008, 07:09 PM

Haha. I have dyslexia. So honestly coming on here won't even help me and my problem. If I wanted to learn how to spell better then I would go back to elementary school.

mi is happy · 03-29-2008, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remedy

What exactly is your advice then? Not to be mean, but I really don't see it.

Critiquing or not doing such about grammar is a personal thing. Some people like having it done, some don't.

Become an editor if your just going to go haywire with the convection critiquing.

I guess I'm mainly ranting also.

Rogozhin · 03-29-2008, 07:42 PM

Grammar isn't an exact science guys.

The question of a grammatical error is not that something is in error, but whether or not that error can be justified.

The rest of the stuff is horse shit you should have fixed before you posted it. It detracts from the story and it's annoying. I like being corrected because I might have missed something and don't want to look like an illiterate douche.

It's Writers Forum right? If this were guitar forms I'd be bitching at you for your sour notes, same difference.

Katastrof · 03-29-2008, 08:27 PM

If I can't read the story, how the hell am I going to critique it? Writing consists of creativity and mechanics. You can't have a good story if you don't have one or the other.

Swamp Thing · 03-29-2008, 08:45 PM

Hmm ... perhaps because anything we submit will have to go before an editor who has 2600 other short stories/novels/poems to read and wants any ANY excuse to drop one of those into the circular file? I pray that people here will catch my mistakes with grammar or spelling.

I'm not sure, but I would like to think that others here want to have their works read by someone other than themselves. Maybe you are different. If so, why are you cluttering up the forum?

Grammar Nazis ROCK!

ash somers · 03-29-2008, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogozhin

Grammar isn't an exact science guys.

The question of a grammatical error is not that something is in error, but whether or not that error can be justified.

ditto

ash somers · 03-29-2008, 08:56 PM

personally, i find grammar, in particular spelling fanatics, rather tedious

Necromortis · 03-29-2008, 09:12 PM

When giving a critique, I try to critique grammar/spelling and syntax as well as plot, style, creativity, etc. I don't drop one for the other.

There's a really simple reason for this - that's what I want people to do to my work. If you really don't want someone pointing out your grammar mistakes, then say so. But a lot of the works I've seen on here have errors in grammar that detract from the flow of the story - so I point them out. I don't see why people don't like that - if you've put a comma in the middle of some dialogue when it really doesn't make sense to have the speaker pausing there, why wouldn't you want someone to point that out? It's not that I'm pointing out grammar mistakes because they're grammar mistakes, I'm pointing them out because 1) the mistakes detract from how the story is read, and 2) they often detract from the actual piece - making the work's flow worse. So I point them out.

And then I move on to telling the author what parts of the story I liked, didn't like, and why. Maybe I'll do that before I point out the grammar errors. But my point is that I don't only focus on grammar.

I mean, when someone critiques/reviews a story, they should be critiquing the story in its entirety. One shouldn't approach a critique and say 'I'm only going to comment on the plot' any more than they should say 'I'm only going to point out grammar details.' That's an incomplete critique and generally not as helpful as someone going into a full blown critique.

I mean, it all comes down to this - someone's pointing something out to you that is wrong in your story. They are doing you a favor. Why the fuck are you bitching about someone helping you out? Even if they're not giving you the exact thing you wanted (a comment on the style, or plot, or action scene, or whatever), they're still helping you out. And on top of that, they're taking their own time to do it, when they could be doing something else (god knows I should be writing a story and doing homework instead of typing this post).

This turned into a little bit of a mini-rant because I really don't like people who complain when other people do them favors. It makes you sound immature and ungrateful. "Wah, you're helping me out with my story by pointing out errors and therefore helping me make the story better, but you're not doing it in the exact way I want you too. Wah." *Cry bitch moan* I mean, come on.

Sorry if anyone was offended, I really didn't mean to offend people - I just get kind of riled up (my sister sometimes complains when I'm helping her out, and that drives me nuts so...yeah).

~Christian

Ilasir Maroa · 03-29-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ash somers

personally, i find grammar, in particular spelling fanatics, rather tedious

Then you'll probably find me to be a real bore, but shouldn't that be "I find grammar fanatics rather tedious, and spelling fanatics even more so."?

Personally, I always note any spelling errors, since generally, there really aren't that many in what I've read here. I also note grammar, especially if the use is rather ambiguous. If it is on purpose, and I don't know why, I want to learn. If someone can't be bothered to check their grammar before posting, then the mistakes ought to be noted, because maybe they'll miss them the next time, too. I've never told anyone a piece sucked because of grammar or spelling problems, and I never will. But I will always point them out, to be sure I don't miss anything important.