Skip the prologue? - Page 2 - Writers Forum

seigfried007 · 03-04-2008, 05:06 PM

I usually read them at least part-way through. Many would make nice Chapter Ones, others serve like the "Dinosaur eating the box handler" scene in Jurassic Park and serve to let the reader know, yes, indeed, there shall be action worth waiting for at the end of this two-hundred-page/full hour of lack-of-action.

The ones I really hate though are tidbits of the story chopped out of a place later in the book. Like the author was even too lazy to write a prologue and just hacked out part of the most suspenseful scene and tacked it onto the beginning.

Agent4185 · 03-04-2008, 05:37 PM

I thought I needed one but later just changed it up a bit, made it one of my chapters, and part of the plot itself. It fit perfectly towards the storyline.

Archer · 03-04-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seigfried007

I usually read them at least part-way through. Many would make nice Chapter Ones, others serve like the "Dinosaur eating the box handler" scene in Jurassic Park and serve to let the reader know, yes, indeed, there shall be action worth waiting for at the end of this two-hundred-page/full hour of lack-of-action.

The ones I really hate though are tidbits of the story chopped out of a place later in the book. Like the author was even too lazy to write a prologue and just hacked out part of the most suspenseful scene and tacked it onto the beginning.

That sounds more like a jacket teaser. In any case, mine is a true prologue. It is "that which came before". It happens 7 years before the main story.

I appreciate everybody's comments. The topic is certainly more controversial than I ever imagined.
.

sassyphoenix · 03-05-2008, 12:28 AM

I tend to prefer epilogues over prologues, because epilogues tend to be wrapping stuff up that needed to be wrapped up, vs a poorly written prologue is just frustrating.

I'm a history person, so I hate prologues (even though I just wrote one... I'm now thinking it will make a verrrrrrrry good chapter one instead of a prologue, thanks for the topic

). I use fantasy/sci-fi/fiction as a way to escape, and if I see a prologue by an author I don't know, I tend to run screaming because, yeah, like other people have said, they ruin things. I usually give them a good try, but if I see they're headed towards telling me too much instead of being a teaser, I ignore it and go on.

Yours doesn't seem like a bad prologue. I'd read it. It TELLS me stuff I NEED to know. Not stuff that will ruin the story later. As you said, it's a true prologue. Personal POV - keep it. I wouldn't like it as a chapter 1, I don't think.

lin · 03-05-2008, 12:34 AM

Prologues are very common and often fill a need or provide a cool ornament for the book. They can be a chance to show something off.

That said: you see SO many shitty ones in newbie work, especially fantasy. It's like a license to get all grotesque and flaky.

If there's a need and you can do something nice with it, go ahead. If you're just putting it there because the neighbors have one or want a chace to do a bunch of elftalk in italics or Star Wars type credit crawl backstory, skip it.

Mike C · 03-05-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer

This displays an amazing combination of arrogance and ignorance.

And it only confirms what I said in the other thread. The prologue stays in. I will not write down to those who feel they are too good to read a prologue.

Thank you. I'll take that as a compliment. But you misunderstand; I'm not 'too good' for prologues, so writing down is the opposite of what I would require. Prologues are almost invariably where the author tries to cram in 1000 years of background history or a lesson in nuclear physics or the real reason why the prince has six fingers... BORING.

It's an info dump. It's the bits that the writer wasn't able to weave into the story and it's an indicator of how useless prologues are that one can generally read the following novel without missing much.

stale911 · 03-05-2008, 01:24 AM

I generally tend to skip the prologue and I usually start straight at chapter 1 with my stories.

But it does kind of depend on what type of genre you are headed towards and whether or not, if it is necassary.

But then again, it does also matter on what your story line is as well as your genre.
But I am not a person to judge the elements on a prologue, seeing as I have only ever written soemthing aorund, one or two myself.

But I say, unless it is absolutely necassary or you find a technique to amke the prologue extremely interesting and intruiging, then I find it utterly pointless.
But this is my opinion, others enjoy reading prologues, and someitmes prologues are very interesting and suck me entirely into the novel.
But I stick to my comment.

Sam Winchester · 03-05-2008, 02:54 AM

There is a general misconception on this forum board that people don't read prologues? Why are prologues thought to be unimportant? Do people think it's just the author writing meaningless crap? Every prologue I've ever seen in a book I've read. There's no excuse not to. You can't call yourself a reader if you skip every prologue in every book you read. That's merely lazeness in my eyes. What if your book starts two years after an incident - an important incident - and you need to fill in people on what happened? You can't do it in a first chapter because that's a flashback, and we all know those are frowned upon. How do you do it? A prologue.

Sam.

Mike C · 03-05-2008, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Winchester

There's no excuse not to. You can't call yourself a reader if you skip every prologue in every book you read. That's merely lazeness in my eyes.

Of course there's an excuse not to, like there's an excuse to not read anything else one considers to be boring or trivial. In my eyes, the prologue is laziness. The prologue - now almost exclusively the domain of the fantasy writer - is generally there because (a) the writer has fallen in love with their world and want to impart all the trivial details, whether necessary or not (how the kingdom came to be under the shadow of the evil one, explaining complex governmental or magical systems, describing the supposedly pivotal moment in the young blacksmith's assistant's life that will ultimately lead him to be the chosen one... ring any bells?), (b) they lack the storytelling skills to weave the details seamlessly into the story, so have to bolt them on like an encyclopedia entry at the beginning, and (c) because fantasy writers tend to read narrowly, rarely reading anything other than their chosen genre, all they learn is how to repeat the same tired old formulae. It's no accident that the best fantasy novels have been written by non-fantasy writers.

I used to read a lot of fantasy. I used to read all the prologues, but seriously, they are for the most part a boring turn-off, so it became a choice between skipping the prologue or tossing the book and finding something more interesting to read. Does that mean I'm not a reader? No, it means I'm a discriminating reader, and that's far more important, don't you think?

Ilasir Maroa · 03-05-2008, 08:56 AM

I always read the prologue, often because of the infodump, should there be one. Some are bad, some are good, some are middling. But there must be some reason the author included one, and some reason why the publisher didn't cut it.

I've written stories with a prologue, and without. Usually time skips are involved if I do, but not so much an info dump after I finish editing.

seigfried007 · 03-05-2008, 09:15 AM

Well, I at least see your point, Mike. The boring formulae of most fantasy is what turned me off from reading much of the genre. I can't stand quest books. Always some evil necromancer with legions of undead trying to raise an evil god with dragons that had nothing better to do than serve humanity. And the prologues. Which is why, when I wrote a 198K fantasy, I didn't bother with it (nor did I bother with fifty pages of nothing happening).

If the prologue looks like a misplaced teaser or an infodump, I generally skip it and only resort to reading it if I'm lost (which doesn't happen often). Got better things to do with my time than waste it reading crap (that goes for the rest of the book too.)

Mike C · 03-05-2008, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Winchester

There is a general misconception on this forum board that people don't read prologues?

It's not a misconception. Read the posts again. Several people have said they either don't read them, or read a couple of pages then skip the rest. That's a fact. A misconception would be when we assumed that people don't read prologues, when in fact they did.

Sam Winchester · 03-05-2008, 09:39 AM

I appreciate what you're saying, Mike, I do, but I don't write fantasy. I write the techno-thriller, and all four of them have prologues. But you didn't answer my question. How can you have something happen two years earlier and not show it in a prologue? If you show it in the first chapter, it's a flashback. You can't win, can you? Personally, I think if they're written well, prologues are pretty good. Look at Clancy's first eight or nine novels. Most had prologues. Deaver, Connelly, Vince Flynn. They all, to my knowledge, use prologues.

Sam.

Mike C · 03-05-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Winchester

[font=Lucida Sans Unicode]I write the techno-thriller, and all four of them have prologues.

I guessed your books had prologues by your defence of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Winchester

But you didn't answer my question. How can you have something happen two years earlier and not show it in a prologue? If you show it in the first chapter, it's a flashback.

I didn't say it was a soft option. Flashbacks can work, depending on how they're written. Ask yourself this - would you rather risk say 25% of your readers skipping the prologue, or spend some extra time working the contents into the story? Or even - being completely simplistic - call your prologue chapter 1. Then write Chapter 2: 2 years later... there. no readers lost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Winchester

Personally, I think if they're written well, prologues are pretty good.

Indeed. But if people get into the habit of skipping them, the prologue could be the best bit of the book and nobody would notice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Winchester

Look at Clancy's first eight or nine novels. Most had prologues.

Hmm... I think they kind of support my argument. I only read one Clancy book, skipped the prologue then tossed the whole book after about 3 chapters. Not dissing what you do (a friend of mine from another grouphas just sold a techno-thriller), just the way he writes.

Sam Winchester · 03-05-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Hmm... I think they kind of support my argument. I only read one Clancy book, skipped the prologue then tossed the whole book after about 3 chapters. Not dissing what you do (a friend of mine from another grouphas just sold a techno-thriller), just the way he writes.

Fair enough, Mike, and writing the prologue as chapter one sounds like a good idea. But you can't argue with results. Clancy has his own unique way of writing, and granted, his latest novels aren't worth buying, but his original stuff was brilliant, and made him a multi-millionaire, so you can't really shoot it down. Anyway, I'll take into consideration what you said and see about making my prologues into first chapters.

Sam.