Lulu, Authorhouse and Booksurge. - Writers Forum

Sam Winchester · 02-14-2008, 01:28 PM

I've had two of my first four novels printed by a company known as 'Lulu'. They bind, staple, or perfect-bind your book to give it an authenic feel, as well as giving the option of priting a jacket blurb on the back. It costs around twelve to thirteen pounds sterling depending on the length and what size you prefer your book to be printed in.

Has anyone else here heard of these companies? There is an option to purchase a ISBN number for your novel, thus allowing you to sell it in retail outlets such as Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and so on. The entire thing costs in the region of five-hundred pounds to produce around three-hundred and fifty books, give them an ISBN number, and have a specialist edit grammatical and other mistakes from your book. They will then post the finalised version back to you, before you make the final decision whether to give the go-ahead for them to ship it to the stores.

What I'd like to know is, is this legitimate. The website is Lulu.com - Self Publishing - Free. Everything appears aboveboard, and there are many reports from people who have used the service and have been pleased with the results.

All input appreciated.

Sam.

Dan · 02-14-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Winchester

I've had two of my first four novels printed by a company known as 'Lulu'. They bind, staple, or perfect-bind your book to give it an authenic feel, as well as giving the option of priting a jacket blurb on the back. It costs around twelve to thirteen pounds sterling depending on the length and what size you prefer your book to be printed in.

Has anyone else here heard of these companies? There is an option to purchase a ISBN number for your novel, thus allowing you to sell it in retail outlets such as Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and so on. The entire thing costs in the region of five-hundred pounds to produce around three-hundred and fifty books, give them an ISBN number, and have a specialist edit grammatical and other mistakes from your book. They will then post the finalised version back to you, before you make the final decision whether to give the go-ahead for them to ship it to the stores.

What I'd like to know is, is this legitimate. The website is Lulu.com - Self Publishing - Free. Everything appears aboveboard, and there are many reports from people who have used the service and have been pleased with the results.

All input appreciated.

Sam.

I've heard nothing but good things about Lulu, and I know of several people who self-published using it. It's definitely not an old-school vanity press.

Personally, I took advantage of the free book offer when I completed NaNoWriMo '06, and I was very pleased with the result...even though I hate the font that I chose.

StephenP2003 · 02-14-2008, 01:41 PM

Most of us here have heard of Lulu. I've considered using them to print my book and self-market it through the magazine I run.

Lulu is not a scam, but don't start believing that it makes you a "published author" in the eyes of anyone who matters.

I spent three hours one afternoon browsing through fiction and nonfiction books on Lulu. I probably read 100 book excerpts, and only 2 or 3 of them seemed competently written. The rest either had terrible, negligent grammar errors, or the style was so over-the-top conversational that I felt like I was reading a sorority girl's diary. There aren't too many gems on Lulu.

Booksurge is very much like publish america. Start-up costs and such, except they don't pretend to be a real publisher like others do. They don't give you tiny advances and they don't act like your book goes through any sort of editorial submissions process. You give them money, and they will help you layout, design, and print your book. They might even offer half-baked marketing services if you feel so inclined.

There's a lot to be said about these companies (namely the print on-demand ones) and how you can use them to your advantage if you have the right mentality, but if you're just [guy] from [city] who works [day job], you're better off seeking traditional publishing if you want anyone outside your circle of friends and family to buy your book.

Others on this forum have a lot to say on the subject, so I'll let them take over. I gotta get back to work.

Edit: for those who have used Lulu, do you mind linking to your book?

valeca · 02-14-2008, 01:46 PM

Lulu is a well-known POD company, and yes, they are legitimate. I've used their services [although, not their editing services. I just wouldn't.] and found that the quality was reasonable. There are plenty of similar companies who use the same technology and produce a decent product, as well as having a cheaper 'per unit' cost, but some of them will charge you for any changes to the MS once it's uploaded. Lulu doesn't do that.

Do not rely on any POD company to get your books into stores, Lulu included. If you're going to go the self-published route, do your research--a lot of it--and find out how (and where) to market yourself and your work. Prepare for untold amounts of legwork, rejection, and frustration, too. It's not impossible to find a measure of success with self-publishing, but go into it with your eyes open to how much work it really takes.

EDITED TO ADD: Be careful and very carefully read the bits about ISBN's from any POD company. Sometimes there are catches associated with getting a number through the company itself. Luckily, being Canuck, I've never needed to purchase an ISBN #. Here in Canada, they're free.

Sam Winchester · 02-14-2008, 01:55 PM

Thanks for the replies, guys. Personally, I have no qualms whatsoever with Lulu for simply printing my books. Having said that, I don't think I would ever consider using them to sell them. For one thing, their royalty requests are much too high for my liking.

Cheers. Sam.

Mike C · 02-14-2008, 03:17 PM

Just my opinion, but for the novelist Lulu et al exist purely as a safety net for those without the talent to write a publishable novel. However you dress it up, it's a vanity exercise and you'll have to make every sale for yourself. Hope you have a large family and sympathetic friends.

Dan · 02-14-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Just my opinion, but for the novelist Lulu et al exist purely as a safety net for those without the talent to write a publishable novel. However you dress it up, it's a vanity exercise and you'll have to make every sale for yourself. Hope you have a large family and sympathetic friends.

Right. I forgot that every single person with talent will get picked up by a publishing house.

Mike C · 02-14-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan

Right. I forgot that every single person with talent will get picked up by a publishing house.

Maybe. Maybe not. Many give up too soon. Those that choose the vanity route will never know if they were good enough - but most people will assume they weren't.

Damian_Rucci · 02-14-2008, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan

Right. I forgot that every single person with talent will get picked up by a publishing house.

they don't get "picked up" they need to submit their work in and maybe get rejected a couple times like every published author has

Dan · 02-14-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian_Rucci

they don't get "picked up" they need to submit their work in and maybe get rejected a couple times like every published author has

Just because someone's not published doesn't mean they can't write a publishable novel. And there's a lot more to it than submitting and getting "rejected a couple of times." There's a whole lot of luck involved.

The point is this: I've read dozens of stories of authors who self-published first, got their names out there, and then were picked up by publishing houses. And some very talented writers who play it the traditional way...submit, get rejected, repeat...will never get published.

My motto is, "Whatever works."

Baron · 02-14-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan

Just because someone's not published doesn't mean they can't write a publishable novel. And there's a lot more to it than submitting and getting "rejected a couple of times." There's a whole lot of luck involved.

The point is this: I've read dozens of stories of authors who self-published first, got their names out there, and then were picked up by publishing houses. And some very talented writers who play it the traditional way...submit, get rejected, repeat...will never get published.

My motto is, "Whatever works."

Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, rejected by 121 publishers, more than any other bestselling book, according to the Guinness Book of Records. Pirsig published privately, the book sold like wildfire and was then taken up by a mainstream publisher. It has gone on to sell millions of copies in twenty-seven languages and was described by the press as "the most widely read philosophy book, ever.

There are many similar stories relating to writers like Richard Bach, Richard Adams and John Grisham, to name but a few.

I think that POD offers writers the opportunity to break free from the constraints of publishing, or to generate sales that might impress the traditional publishing houses. Writers grouping together and setting up a group website, being discerning about what they publish, is a serious way forward. A website offering choice will attract far more interest than a blog or a personal website.

Publishers have had the upper hand for a very long time. The internet offers the same opportunities for writers as it has for musicians and independent record labels.

Mike C · 02-14-2008, 05:14 PM

Dan, you miss the point. Sure,there are a small handful of authors who started out self-publishing and got successful. They all have one thing in common - first chance they got, they signed with a traditional publishing house.

But that's still missing the point. I know a lot of published authors, some new, some with many volumes on the shelves. One picked up a half-million dollar advance on their first book last year, closely followed by the sale of film rights. Others obviously don't earn so much, but one thing they all have in common? They write for a living. They don't spend their time selling books out of the trunk of their cars, which is pretty much what you end up doing if youself publish. They write books, their publisher sells books. Symbiosis.

The 'very talented' writers who get rejected - sure. Everyone gets rejected. But some people get a couple of rejections and give up. Others don't. It can take 100 queries to get an agent to take you on. Some people don't have the determination to go that far. If you have talent and perseverence, you will get published. If you lack one or the other, you won't. As for luck... my dad used to have a saying: "The harder I try, the luckier I get".

Interesting statistic for you. The average number of book sales per self-published title - 30.

Mike C · 02-14-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron

Writers grouping together and setting up a group website, being discerning about what they publish, is a serious way forward.

Interesting concept. You take an egalitarian concept - the web allows you to be published no matter how good or bad you are - and add discernment. Isn't that just apeing the publishing houses that have the claimed upper hand? How is it different? Publishing collectives have been around longer than the internet. It's not a way forward, it's just stepping sideways and wearing a false moustache.

Dan · 02-14-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

But that's still missing the point. I know a lot of published authors, some new, some with many volumes on the shelves. One picked up a half-million dollar advance on their first book last year, closely followed by the sale of film rights. Others obviously don't earn so much, but one thing they all have in common? They write for a living. They don't spend their time selling books out of the trunk of their cars, which is pretty much what you end up doing if youself publish. They write books, their publisher sells books. Symbiosis.

How are you comparing established authors with those who are trying to get established?

Hell, I'd have no compunction about self-publishing whilst I was pimping my novel out to every publisher in sight.

Do you remember how the South Park guys got their break?

Baron · 02-14-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Dan, you miss the point. Sure,there are a small handful of authors who started out self-publishing and got successful. They all have one thing in common - first chance they got, they signed with a traditional publishing house.

But that's still missing the point. I know a lot of published authors, some new, some with many volumes on the shelves. One picked up a half-million dollar advance on their first book last year, closely followed by the sale of film rights. Others obviously don't earn so much, but one thing they all have in common? They write for a living. They don't spend their time selling books out of the trunk of their cars, which is pretty much what you end up doing if youself publish. They write books, their publisher sells books. Symbiosis.

The 'very talented' writers who get rejected - sure. Everyone gets rejected. But some people get a couple of rejections and give up. Others don't. It can take 100 queries to get an agent to take you on. Some people don't have the determination to go that far. If you have talent and perseverence, you will get published. If you lack one or the other, you won't. As for luck... my dad used to have a saying: "The harder I try, the luckier I get".

Interesting statistic for you. The average number of book sales per self-published title - 30.

It's a changing world, Mike, and the internet is changing a lot of things. Right now it's in its infancy. No need to do much more than spend an hour a day working on online promotion. With the trad publishers it isn't just a question of sitting back and writing and letting the publisher handle promotion, and you know it. What about all the time taken up travelling around doing book signongs in remote places? That and interviews and all the other things that a writer is called to do to help sell their work. All of these take time. It might be some time before writers' co-operatives can seriously challenge the big boys but it isn't impossible that it will ultimately happen.