Wallmaker

Not to mention, why do people shell out a lot of money for the new and best around with the smoothest ride possible when they could just buy off the neighbor's pinto, rusty away in their neighbors backyard for a couple of bucks? Readers know what they want out of their book. They see a cover, a review, and expect a well put together story. Hell yeah you need to get from point A to point B, but moreso, you need to know your craft to help your reader out.

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Throughy

You should know the basics intuitively as they relate to your story, and not rely on mental crib notes.

To extract the best of the initial thread, creative and compelling reads come from writing that is non-formulaic, and so in-turn, non-predictable.

Charlie_Eleanor

When I was six I used to scribble on paper and pretend I was writing. I felt really cool then, not so much now that I am really trying to write.


It doesn't matter who you are writing for because in the end the only thing that matters is you gave characters life, etc.

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Ilasir Maroa

mental crib notes... lol. I think that it is very useful to know the craft, but that you should let your unconcious handle the fancy devices, and leave your concious mind to tell the story. That way, you use the techniques, but it's a lot harder to crowbar them in and ruin the story.

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My hopeful book:
Crap! Haven't posted it anywhere yet, darn!
"Only tyranny cloaks itself in shadows. The light of justice can not be hidden."

www.theoddvillepress.com

Malone

I'm amazed so many people fell into this trap of Ox's...he's getting sloppy with his controversial "insults."

The Backward OX

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How Beautiful it is to Do Nothing, and then Rest Afterwards . . . . . Spanish proverb

Selorian

I'm going to stick with the car analogy since that's what we've been going with the most here. Concept cars/early drafts of stories are where you let your creativity run wild and free. The production model/finished novel is taking what you created and actually building it, using all the techniques and tools you have to make it something that actually works.

That sounded better in my head, but hopefully it makes sense.

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Utopia can only exist in a violent society.

NaShoStoMo? The Hothouse?

Dark Fact

To be honest, I've never felt like anything but a pretend writer.

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The only way to learn how to write is to write.

ClancyBoy

I'm a real writer. That I'm ever going to be published is where the pretending comes into play.

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"Mother Hitton's Littul Kittons wait for you down there. Little pets they are, little little little pets. Cute little things, they say. Don't you believe it. No man ever saw them and walked away alive. You won't either. That's the final dash, flash. That's the utter clobber, cobber." --Cordwainer Smith, Norstrillia.

lin

Same here.


Damn it.

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lin

I like the part where you build your story/car up to where it's too powerful for normal use and end up terrifying people off the sidewalks and smash it into a tree, then go to jail.

Ah, good times....

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The Backward OX

It’s time for a review of my original post.

Perhaps I could’ve expressed myself better regarding the use of jargon. What I meant was that, by and large, readers don’t care whether or not the words of a book follow the rules. So write your book any old which way - with one proviso – be 100% correct with your grammar. All that readers want is to be entertained.

I repeat that you’re not posting here for readers. I may be wrong but it seems to me that you’re only posting here because you hope another member will give you strokes.

F*ck it, if I could write as well as some of you, I wouldn’t be wasting my time here. I’d be off making a name for myself in the real world, writing for readers. I only waste my time here because I can’t write. But you can. So why don’t you do something about seeking publication, and cease all this procrastination?

Forums are an excuse for doing nothing productive.

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How Beautiful it is to Do Nothing, and then Rest Afterwards . . . . . Spanish proverb

Malone

Trying to get published is a waste most the time. Twenty bucks for a short story isn't worth the time formatting for the different editors and sending away.
I'll try to get a novel published soon, but I don't expect success with that. Even if I do make any money, it won't be enough. A 2000 dollar advance is fortunate. I could make that in a couple weeks being a chef.

This is just fun.

Rabid Euphoria

I agree with most of this. People become obsessed with the quality of their work before their even done. I love seeing people online (I was once this way) who write a four page chapter with no description, mostly all dialogue with no characterization. Surely enough I often see replies of 'that's great' or 'I see a lot of potential in this'. If there is anything more damaging to a writer, it's this. You're either going to get told you're work is shit and give up or get an unwarranted sense of praise and not push yourself for improvement.

However, your whole 'doesn't matter how the story is delivered' is bullshit, plain and simple. Now, I understand there are writer's and readers more concerned with the style of the prose and the usage of poetic devices and other care about plot. Anyone can come up with a story but it takes so much more than that to make it good; characterization, setting, description of all forms. This is like saying it doesn't matter how good a director is if he manages to capture the plot on camera. While the story is what propels the book along it's everything else that keeps you reading. People may not care what parts their car has while going to the store but they do if they race or want to improve it, fix it or accessorize it. By your definition of what people want in a novel, a book like this should be perfect: "See Jane. See Spot. See Jane see Spot run. Spot has a ball. Spot gives it to Jane. Janes throws the ball. Spot gets it. Jane smiles."

Why am I not seeking publishing? Well, my book isn't done yet but I'll be sending it out when I'm done draft three.

Malone: That is why I don't try and publish short stories. I'd much rather write them and if I make it release collections of short stories. I think the only thing worth trying to publish is a novel, perhaps with some short stories attached to display versatility and that you're not a one hit wonder.

Truth-Teller

There is no such thing as pretend writer.

Either you write; or you don't.