The Backward OX

Where is it engraved in stone that erotica cannot be great literature or that great literature cannot be erotica? Surely that depends only on a combination of subject matter and writer skill. If one of the world's best writers - whomsoever that person might be - chose to write an erotic novel embodying all the characteristics that make literature great, would that not make it great literature?

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Writer Kitten

My apologies, I wasn't clear and chose my words poorly. There is nothing stopping erotica from being great literature. However, most writers that write it are honest about what it is: erotica. They do not try to disguise it as something else.

I find nothing wrong with the genre, as long as I know the book I'm picking up is erotica, not erotica thinly disguised as fantasy. (Fantasy-erotica is completely separate. I'm talking about stories that claim to be fantasy and then you read them and they are simply sex scene after sex scene with a dodgy explanation as to why all the sex is included.)

However, I stand by my opinion that often times a fade to black philosophy does much more for the story than even a well written sex-scene.

If a sex scene adds to the plot and moves the story along -- even characterisation -- then by all means, include it. However, if all you're doing is adding a sex scene to add a sex scene, then maybe fade-to-black would be better.

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Mermaid on the breakwater

99% of the time it's just absolute crap that isn't worth reading. Ian McEwan uses it brilliantly in "on Chesil Beach" but that's all about them never actually getting to have sex. Erotic writing sucks more often than not because there's no point to it. Nobody wants to read sex for the sake of sex. They'd buy a porn mag or something if they wanted that.

Voodoo

Ah, he's right.

Still. I did enjoy reading about "his plum shaped cockhead" in a vamp tramp novel.

Silk

Men have sex because for the physical aspect of it, and women for the emotional side of it. Oh, blast, my world crumbles around me. I have seen the light.

There are lots of reasons to include graphical sex in the description, namely because sex can be very significant in the psyche of a character. Consider a rape, consider a youth, consider a romance. Why would the sexual act not have significant influence on the character(s)? And if indeed it has a signficance influence on the character(s), why should it not be described? Shouldn't the description show us the characters' perception of it? Isn't that characterization?

As for having sex for the sake of sex. Of course, so is doing anything for the sake of doing anything. I don't see how it is particular for erotica, since erotica isn't even the most popular of genre fictions.

Compared to Science Fiction and Fantasy, where the fantastical elements are not neccessary for the characters' development, at this risk of being to Freudian, sex has a profound influence on a person's motives, emotions, thoughts. Whether it is described depends merely on the relevance to what you're trying to show.

This may manifest in much less than actual intercourse, of course, but if the situation calls for it, why not? Isn't it as untruthful to shun sex for the sake of being "proper" as to have sexual scenes for the sake of being shocking? Ultimately it depends on the style and tone of the tone/narrator, as well as the relationship between characters. I would say, in fact, that sex needs less description for more sexually active characters, whereas, going back to the rape victim scenario, -that- scene would be quite significant.

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Mermaid on the breakwater

Isn't that a bit of a stupid stereotype? Surely, some men and women have sex for both the physical and the emotional side of it?

Voodoo

Of course they do. Especially us girly men.

It's both sides, but I really do think adult men have it more for the release and the pleasure than do women the same age. It's a stereotype (And I know some young ladies who tell me they watch hours of *gay porn* everyday) that's probably correct more often than not.

Besides the point, though.

Mermaid on the breakwater

I don't know, to be honest. I am straight but for me it's more an emotional thing than physical. It's not a female attribute, I don't think, or a gay or straight one. Just depends on the person.

Voodoo

"I am straight"

Goddamn it.

"for me it's more an emotional thing than physical."

Goddamn it.

It is a feminine attribute, I think. Doesn't mean it's something even the burliest and filthiest of men can't have.

The deepest, imbalanced male in you wants to fuck and go back to your hut, but the deepest, imbalanced female in you wants to keen and touch for three days and nights.

You've found a center!

Silk

/Facepalm

I was sarcastic. Read page 1.

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lazerbeak

In my opinion there's no reason to treat a sex scene differently to any other... titilation isn't some morally repugnant thing that should be avoided 'just because'. Neither is it something you should stick in for it's own sake 'just because', any more than you'd write a car chase or gunfight.

If your characters want to drink tea, have them drink tea. If they want to get jiggy, have them get jiggy.

Buddy Glass

That seems a little harsh. 99% of the time? Couldn't you say the same of more arbitrary human actions? At least sex is something more substantial. It can serve as microcosm for something greater, the coming together of two individuals, confusion, complication, love, hatred. There's so much possibility there.

Don't be so conservative.

Voodoo

A "sex scene" is when two people fuck and the author makes words about it.

"They fuck."

"They jostle and his cum erodes her mind."

Not much difference.

"They fuck and LOVE."

Well.

lin

Exactly, lazer. Would this make any sense it it were about "war scenes" or "romance scenes" or "horse race scenes"?

The idea that a sex scene will tend to be written badly is highly prejudicial, isn't it?

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The Backward OX

Have you noticed? Hodge is keeping a very low profile in this thread. Wonder why?

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