Okay to call for feedback after form rejection? - Writers Forum

CaptainFreedom · 08-26-2007, 01:31 AM

Greetings Forum Friends,

I just got a form rejection on my first manuscript submission, but they’re was no real feedback. It was one of those encouraging form letters that you don’t know whether or not to take seriously because it’s printed on a stupid little card and doesn’t have a signature.

Also, they say they don’t give editorial feedback on projects they’re not going to represent.

I’m thinking about calling them to see if I can squeeze some feedback out of them. I mean, what’s the worst that can happen right? As long as I’m nice, and if I say right from the start that I’m not trying to change their minds, I don’t see it as that big of a deal. It’s kind of hard to say how an agent would look at it though because they probably get calls from weirdoes all the time.

What do you guys think? Is it okay to call, or does that idea suck?

CF

Hobbes · 08-26-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Also, they say they don’t give editorial feedback on projects they’re not going to represent.

Quote:

I’m thinking about calling them to see if I can squeeze some feedback out of them.

Hmm.

If I were you, I'd just get back to revising the thing, and sending it out to other places. Asking a site that doesn't do feedback for feedback will likely come off as persistent (in the bad way).

mammamaia · 08-26-2007, 02:11 AM

besides which, you have no idea who at that agency actually looked at your submission and sent out the form rejection, so who would you ask to speak to?... and even if you did know, how do you expect anyone to remember your work out of all the probably hundreds they look at per week?...

hobbes is right, pestering them won't do you any good and could do some harm, as they love to pass around the latest 'idiot newbie' stories...

CaptainFreedom · 08-26-2007, 04:05 AM

It was requested, so I know who I sent it to. Also, they probably got between 10.08 and 20.08 and the reply was postmarked 22.08, so we're talking about a decision they made last week. They'll remeber it unless there's something wrong with them.

Thanks for assuming I'm an idiot by the way, you're starting to make Lin look right.

CF

mammamaia · 08-26-2007, 04:33 AM

please don't go assuming things not meant like he does, ok?... what i wrote was not aimed at you at all, but only a general observation, as i hope you would have noticed...

Talia_Brie · 08-26-2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainFreedom

It was requested, so I know who I sent it to. Also, they probably got between 10.08 and 20.08 and the reply was postmarked 22.08, so we're talking about a decision they made last week. They'll remeber it unless there's something wrong with them.

Thanks for assuming I'm an idiot by the way, you're starting to make Lin look right.

CF

She didn't call you an idiot or assume you were anything. If you're not going to give us all the information when you ask for help, you're going to get responses that are inappropriate.

If you know who read the submission, feel free to contact them directly for feedback. Be aware that these people probably do read hundreds of submissions a week, and therefore any feedback you might get is likely to be general in nature. Perhaps it won't be, but be aware that it might be.

But if you do make the call, and are actually lucky enough to get someone to speak to you who remembers your submission and is willing to talk to you about why they rejected it, consider this piece of advice:

This person is not interested in having an argument with you about their opinion. They have formed their opinion, and nothing you say to them at this point is going to get them to reconsider it. Do not winge, do not whine. Do not try to explain why you made the choices you made, because they don't care. The choices you made were not strong enough for your work to be included in their publication, that is all that matters. So, if you ever want to have a chance of being published by these people, you listen to their response, you say "Thank you very much for taking the time to speak to me," and you take on board whatever they have to say, even if, no, especially if you disagree.

I work in banking, and in that industry we have what is called "The Golden Rule" - he who has the gold makes the rules. In publishing it's the same thing. The people who make these decisions, they're the one's who count, and their opinions are the ones who count.

Just keep that in mind.

daisydaisy · 08-26-2007, 11:02 AM

I probably wouldn't. If you're convinced it's good enough then send it somewhere else. Wiating for feedback might just waste time that you could be spending looking for another more suitable market.

kenewbie · 08-26-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainFreedom

It was requested, so I know who I sent it to.

Requested as in they contacted you and asked for something? In that case it would be very strange not to get any sort of feedback.

k

CaptainFreedom · 08-26-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talia_Brie

She didn't call you an idiot or assume you were anything. If you're not going to give us all the information when you ask for help, you're going to get responses that are inappropriate.

If you know who read the submission, feel free to contact them directly for feedback. Be aware that these people probably do read hundreds of submissions a week, and therefore any feedback you might get is likely to be general in nature. Perhaps it won't be, but be aware that it might be.

But if you do make the call, and are actually lucky enough to get someone to speak to you who remembers your submission and is willing to talk to you about why they rejected it, consider this piece of advice:

This person is not interested in having an argument with you about their opinion. They have formed their opinion, and nothing you say to them at this point is going to get them to reconsider it. Do not winge, do not whine. Do not try to explain why you made the choices you made, because they don't care. The choices you made were not strong enough for your work to be included in their publication, that is all that matters. So, if you ever want to have a chance of being published by these people, you listen to their response, you say "Thank you very much for taking the time to speak to me," and you take on board whatever they have to say, even if, no, especially if you disagree.

I work in banking, and in that industry we have what is called "The Golden Rule" - he who has the gold makes the rules. In publishing it's the same thing. The people who make these decisions, they're the one's who count, and their opinions are the ones who count.

Just keep that in mind.

Judging by your smart ass answer, you're assuming I'm an idiot as well. You could throw a couple of 'loser's or 'dumbass's in either one of your responses without missing a beat.

Here are some examples:

This person is not interested in having an argument with you about their opinion, dumbass.

besides which, you have no idea who at that agency actually looked at your submission and sent out the form rejection, so who would you ask to speak to, retard?

See what I mean? I'm not the one who started being a jerk - first was Maia, then you, and now me.

I made it clear in my first post that I wasn't going to try and change their mind. Why would I? There are hundreds of agents. So, please read the entire thread before making a response Talia, and if you have trouble understanding it, maybe you should read it twice.

Just keep that in mind. ('Just keep that in mind' - har har har - who do you think you are?)

To answer kenewbie:
I thought it was weird too. It's almost rude, but maybe they're just really busy. Anyway, I don't think giving them a call would be that out of the ordinary. Maybe they just don't want to take the time to write a letter.

CF

sixlivesdown · 08-26-2007, 12:19 PM

It's generally not appreciated, because these agents have other things to do besides give feedback on a work that they've already decided not to accept. So, I would vote no.

wmd · 08-26-2007, 12:21 PM

Hey Captain...

You asked for the forums opinion and when the members of the forum express adifferent opinion than yours you get pissed off... something wrong with that picture.

The honest to god truth is that people read hundreds of ms a week and they may not remember yours. You said you sent it to a specific person, so go ahead and contact that person, they may still have notes on your work and be willing to look it up...

But as was said before, if the publisher says in their response that they do not give feedback, and you go and ask for feedback, that may not piss them off, but they will remember your name. (and not remember it in a good way).

Don't assume that everyone thinks you are an idiot. No one here does, but you specifically said it was your first manuscript, so they are telling you things that will help you on future manuscripts.

Sit back and take a breath... the whole world is not against you.

valeca · 08-26-2007, 12:57 PM

CF, I think you interpreted something that wasn't there. All I see is someone (in this case, Talia) offering information, and taking the time to explain a little of the reasoning behind it for those who may not know it.

I would say don't call. Just move onto the next place on your list.

kenewbie · 08-26-2007, 02:03 PM

For me the key thing here is that the author is contacted by the publisher, not the other way around.

If I ask you to do something for me, and then it does not fit for whatever reason, giving you a form reject would be rude as hell.

In my ever so humble opinion.

k

CaptainFreedom · 08-26-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmd

You asked for the forums opinion and when the members of the forum express adifferent opinion than yours you get pissed off... something wrong with that picture.

That's not what happened at all - please read the whole thread before answering. If I'm misreading the assholesqueness of those posts, then I'm going to start counting myself with the half dozen-or-so people on this forum who claim to be mildly autistic.

This question is kind of a comparison between the real world and the publishing world.

In the real world, if a deal didn't go through for some reason, my boss would ask me why. If I told him I didn't ask, he would think I was either lazy or stupid.

In the publishing world, the authors with no clout (everybody at this forum, basically) are so afraid of the agents, that they can make whatever kooky demands they want to, and 95% of us will play along. That kind of distorts the reality of the situation.

I mean really, if I call them for three minutes, does that mean a deal isn't going to go through or a query won't get read? Of course not.

If I was working for someone else, I would be negligent if I didn't call.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

"Didn't you read our form letter? How dare you call me? You'll never work in this town again!"

Yipee!

CF

Hobbes · 08-26-2007, 04:30 PM

If you're as fun on the phone as you've been in this thread, it's going to be a great call.