“Huh......my four-year old could’ve written that!” - Page 3 - Writers Forum

Hodge · 08-21-2007, 04:35 PM

It's a popular misconception that good novelists just crank out a book and sell it... Like Mike said, Kerouc didn't just sit down and write a book. No author does. Nor does any author work for decades as something unrelated to writing and then suddenly churn out a bestseller. Those who you see on the nonfiction shelves who seem to have done that? Two words: ghost writer.

Good writing takes practice and command over the language. Command over the language means learning how to use the rules properly and knowing when you don't have to. It doesn't mean learning what a predicate nominative or split infinitive is, but it does mean learning correct grammar and punctuation.

The Backward OX · 08-21-2007, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodge

Nor does any author work for decades as something unrelated to writing and then suddenly churn out a bestseller.

Margaret Mitchell, perhaps?

lin · 08-21-2007, 11:53 PM

Mike is correct about Kerouac having done some writing before, but I don't consider it serious writing, just some jock screwing around. On The Road was his first real novel attempt, a sudden ejaculation. His later work, where he gets "writerly" kind of suck, mostly.

So that leaves us with Robbins and Spillane...both the best selling author in the world at at least one point in time for each.

I know several who have done this one less spectacular basis. FM Busby comes to mind. The guy never wrote anything other than a grant proposal before writing his first novel, which sold and did very well.

This is NOT uncommon. Hodge's idiotic rant that "Nor does any author" is bullshit, but most of what he says is, right? But I'm not talking about rare cases here. LOT'S of people sell the first book they write.

And why settle for Margaret Mitchell when you can have JK Rowling?

My point is this, and it doesn't change or go away.

Writing is not about technique. It is about talent and stories.

Actually, either one of the two will often do the trick. You get a great story dropped in your lap and can get it down, they aren't going to go through and count your adverbs.

Lack of formal training in writing is not really a drawback to success, and no amount it will guarantee success...or even do much to help bring it about.

This is not some cranky curmudgeonry, nor some secret. Anybody who want's to drop the wishfulness and look around, or talk to people will run into the same thing being said over and over by successful writers. And the losers just keep talking about the importance of going to school and workshops and learning "rules".

Hobbes · 08-22-2007, 01:10 AM

To the list of people who worked for years on things unrelated to writing before starting to blow out 99% of other "established" writers, add Haruki Murakami. He wrote his first novel at 30 after running a jazz club from the time he graduated college.

lin · 08-22-2007, 03:50 AM

Happens all the time. Believe me.

And that's not even counting all the doctors and lawyers who do some writing in school, practice awhile, then zap out best sellers. There's got to be dozen of those.

Wambaugh spawned a crop of cops-turned-writers. For awhile it was sea captains.

For awhile it was newspaper people. Like Mark Twain and Ambrose Bierce. Thing is though, in those days there wasn't such a thing as J-school. You just started writing for some paper, or started publishing one. Lots of guys went from engineering or something to fooling around with papers then slapped out a good-selling first novel.

Mike C · 08-22-2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lin

Mike is correct about Kerouac having done some writing before, but I don't consider it serious writing, just some jock screwing around. On The Road was his first real novel attempt, a sudden ejaculation.

I disagree. He wrote a lot, and wrote furiously, and without success. It was only when he hit on the idea of writing like his friend and travelling buddy Neal Cassidy spoke, the wild, crazy stream of consciousness beatness of OTR, that he found his voice and got succcess.

As to the others, and anyone else, sure, you can suddenly decide to write a novel with no past experience (I've cited Bonnie Shimko in the past - at the age of 60, having retired as a teacher, she wrote her first novel as an apology to her daughter and got it published), but can you honestly say that any of these people did it without any prior experience of reading novels? I think it highly unlikely, if not impossible.

Hobbes · 08-22-2007, 04:37 AM

From page two :^)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbes

I don't think anyone's arguing people just wake up without having read anything in their lives and write prize-winning novels, but rather that formulaic approaches are quite unnecessary for anyone who isn't already convinced s/he needs them to succeed.

Truth-Teller · 08-22-2007, 05:20 AM

So what do you need to have in order to become a sucessful writer?

1. Read alot
2. Have passion for word
3. Have a feverish imagination and an burning desire to tell them
4. Love to tell stories
5. Like writing
6. Constant practice of grammatical syntax and how one word form into another like chain linked fence.
7. Constantly reminds himself on how to cut down drag and create smoother sentence like a tank full of premium gas.
8. Humble thyself; even if you're are a better writer
9. Look for ways to improve your writing, listening to critiques with open ear
10. Make your story the best possible, knowing it is not the best, and move onto a new manuscript to outdo your previous 'finished' work.
11. Revision is a writer's life-line. Without it you will die.
12. You do not quit.

Truth-Teller · 08-22-2007, 05:22 AM

And, last but not least, you tell the truth.

Mike C · 08-22-2007, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth-Teller

And, last but not least, you tell the truth.

Amen. We agree on something.

bob rulz · 08-22-2007, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth-Teller

And, last but not least, you tell the truth.

Wait. What the hell is that supposed to mean?

The Backward OX · 08-22-2007, 09:36 AM

I don't beleeeeve it!

meldy · 08-22-2007, 01:48 PM

This is somewhat off topic and I am going to rely on the fact that I am a newbie to this forum in hopes that I dont look like a total idiot.

I get the impression that the general feeling from 'real writers' that anyone who reads the how-to books basically hasnt a snowballs chance in hell of ever creating anything worthwhile.

And I am curious why this is?

I was an avid how-to reader. Basically operating on the assumption that there must be some sort of method to producing a decent bit of writing and then learning how to get that piece published.

I dont think that is anything that someone, no matter how much they read or churn out stories, automatically knows how to do.

Now I didnt find that all of the how-to books were helpful but some certainly had some valid points.

And for the record....no I havent been published nor have I completed a piece of work which I would consider publishable.

So I probably fit right in with the wanna-be's but I dont know if its the how-to books which turned me into a wanna-be or simply the fact that I am not brave enough yet to put myself out there to be rejected.

And if the how-to books are so useless.....wouldnt people who frequent this forum be in the same catagory as people who read the books?
We are all here for information arent we?

Truth-Teller · 08-22-2007, 02:26 PM

Instead of reading How-To books--read books.

meldy · 08-22-2007, 02:48 PM

LMAO

I DO!!

Believe me!

I came here in search of more meaty reading material lol.

HP and the rest of the books I seem to read just arent cutting it.

I figure any 700 page book I can read in less than a day is probably not much of a challenge lol.

I just returned from the library with a couple Douglas Adams books.
Based on the reviews on this forum.