“Huh......my four-year old could’ve written that!” - Page 2 - Writers Forum

Ilasir Maroa · 08-20-2007, 07:40 PM

That's a good point, Shawn. Knowing what you're doing goes a long way towards a better product and, in the end, that's what everybody wants. "Well met(ct)!"

MEShammas · 08-20-2007, 09:11 PM

yeah i think i know who youre talking about but i wont say incase its not that person and i end up being blown up by a flaming torch of endless and eternal doom

lin · 08-21-2007, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Another thing to keep in mind is that all those tips and tricks can help to improve your writing,

Can they? Do you have any experience or anecdote to back that up? Because I spent years around academia, have written professionally for decades, have been on magazine and newspaper staffs in several countries... and I don't really think so.

Mike C · 08-21-2007, 01:31 AM

Tips and tricks can improve the technical aspects of your writing (understanding of grammar, showing versus telling, passive vs active etc), but there's not a book or teacher in the world that can teach you imagination or the passion for words that I feel is necessary to make a good author put the right words in the right order. If you don't have those, pack your bags and leave; you don't have a place here.

It should be remembered also that critiques aren't, generally, any good. Some advice is better than others, but it's up to the writer to decide on it's relative worthiness.

Ilasir Maroa · 08-21-2007, 01:38 AM

That's right. Just what I said.

And Lin, sorry but... I don't think it likely that some little kid can grow up, unexposed to writing or the different styles and methods of writing, and write the next great book. I just don't see it happening. People become good writers because they are exposed to the processes and methods as well as having their own innate creative spark. Humans learn a lot by imitation, so reading up on the subject of writing, hearing critques, and writing in general are in fact going to improve one's writing. Ever heard of Englihs class(or whatever your fist language is)? I bet you'll find that most modern writers, and quite a few older ones have in fact been to English class, and learned a lot there about ways to write well.

Truth-Teller · 08-21-2007, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lin

Can they? Do you have any experience or anecdote to back that up? Because I spent years around academia, have written professionally for decades, have been on magazine and newspaper staffs in several countries... and I don't really think so.

You do not have the talent, motivation, nor the creative drive, to help you rise above your peers. You will forever flounder in your feces, unfortunately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

If you don't have those, pack your bags and leave; you don't have a place here.

No. If you don't have those, you practice and hone your writing until eyes fall out--immersing yourself in the literature of salient authors, reading their work, perusing, masticating, and finally gleaning the good, while discarding the bad. And if you still can't find the proper words to tell your story--only then should you quit.

lin · 08-21-2007, 02:43 AM

Quote:

I don't think it likely that some little kid can grow up, unexposed to writing or the different styles and methods of writing, and write the next great book.

It happens all the time. Actually it's more like...some buy spends his life working in a technical field or as a cop or something. He retires or has a mid-life crisis or sees a movie and decides to write something and it sells and boom, he's a novelist.

Some of the best-selling authors in the world just sat down and cranked out a book. Harold Robbins, Mickey Spillane, Jack Keroac.... a LOT.

On the other hand what you DO NOT see, is some dweeb who can't write but diligently studies books and tips on websites and reads copiously and learns all those lists of rules every idiot in creation post on forums, and sells something.

If you know of a case of that, let us know about it.

Quote:

People become good writers because they are exposed to the processes and methods

Absolutely untrue. Like I said...GO ASK a successful writer and see what they say.

LOL
Yes, most writers have been to English class. And math class. And driving class. This is just too funny.
In your English classes, did you ever run across the phrase Reductio ad absurdum? Well, that's not really what it means. Well, it kind of does.

Let me ask you this. Has it occurred to you somewhere in here, that you are just posting your ideas, which stem from wish fulfillment, in argument against people who are writers and who are citing writers?

I'll give you a little tip of my own if you want to get published. Instead of spending time learning how to write gooder, spend the same time doing something unusual. Working in a hospice, dealing drugs to stockbrokers, mercy mission to Darfor... then write about it. You have a LOT better chance selling something that people are interested in, and it doesn't have to be perfectly written, either.

Good luck

Hobbes · 08-21-2007, 03:03 AM

What in the world are we defining as "processes and methods"? Because there are lots of successful writers who read lots of books, and eventually started writing them - somehow, *without* studying "how to publish" or "my first novel" guides. I don't think anyone's arguing people just wake up without having read anything in their lives and write prize-winning novels, but rather that formulaic approaches are quite unnecessary for anyone who isn't already convinced s/he needs them to succeed. If you think you need an English class to learn how to write well, you need to stop listening to whoever's giving you this bad advice, and start listening to the people telling you to think for yourself.

lin · 08-21-2007, 03:25 AM

Quote:

start listening to the people telling you to think for yourself.

My favorite phrase of the day.

Truth-Teller · 08-21-2007, 03:30 AM

Why can't you be more like Hobbes, Lin?

Why do you always have to act like Calvin?

The Backward OX · 08-21-2007, 03:49 AM

Message for: The Keyboard Gremlin

Pls call to Mike C's place of work.
Gather up every stray apostrophe you can find.
Place said 's in a sack.
Tie knot in sack.
Take sack to nearest deep-water port, river, or disused well.
Throw in.

Submit a/c at month end.

Mike C · 08-21-2007, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth-Teller

If you don't have those, you practice and hone your writing until eyes fall out.

If you lack imagination and passion, no amount of practice will give you them. Practice will just enable you to write dull stuff with less mistakes.

Mike C · 08-21-2007, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lin

Jack Keroac...

Can't speak about the others, but Kerouac didn't just sit down one day and crak out a best-seller. He was well read, and he had some swanky lit friends. He wrote a lot of crap before he got it right. Where he scored (and oh boy, to score like that... I'd give an arm. And both legs. And then the other arm, and tap out novels with my nose.) was to break the mould and write pretty much like nobody had ever written before. To virtually create a genre that whole generations identified with.

I'm not saying it's impossible to write a good book without ever having read one. If you've got wit and imagination and passion and a fire in your belly it's quite possible. But I think less likely. Not because necessarily because reading teaches you to write, but because unless you have that passion for words that makes you like reading, you're less likely to have the passion for words that makes you write.

smilinghelps · 08-21-2007, 10:02 AM

I think that if you don't have the passion to write, then you shouldn't. Period.

That passion doesn't come from text books or lectures or years of translating Shakespeare. It comes from inside you. You all have it or you wouldn't be here.

Everyone's talent for writing is different based on years of lectures or reading or practice or experience. It doesn't make one's work better than others, that's very subjective. Some people love English Literature, others love Sci-Fi, others love steamy romance novels and others prefer DIY How to Fix a Kitchen Sink. Every forum serves a purpose.

Focus on what you love, what you're good at. Write what you know. If you're passionate about Cockerspaniels, reasearch everything about them. You can't sell anything until you know what you're selling.

Ilasir Maroa · 08-21-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lin

It happens all the time. Actually it's more like...some buy spends his life working in a technical field or as a cop or something. He retires or has a mid-life crisis or sees a movie and decides to write something and it sells and boom, he's a novelist.

Some of the best-selling authors in the world just sat down and cranked out a book. Harold Robbins, Mickey Spillane, Jack Keroac.... a LOT.

On the other hand what you DO NOT see, is some dweeb who can't write but diligently studies books and tips on websites and reads copiously and learns all those lists of rules every idiot in creation post on forums, and sells something.

If you know of a case of that, let us know about it.

Absolutely untrue. Like I said...GO ASK a successful writer and see what they say.

LOL
Yes, most writers have been to English class. And math class. And driving class. This is just too funny.
In your English classes, did you ever run across the phrase Reductio ad absurdum? Well, that's not really what it means. Well, it kind of does.

Let me ask you this. Has it occurred to you somewhere in here, that you are just posting your ideas, which stem from wish fulfillment, in argument against people who are writers and who are citing writers?

I'll give you a little tip of my own if you want to get published. Instead of spending time learning how to write gooder, spend the same time doing something unusual. Working in a hospice, dealing drugs to stockbrokers, mercy mission to Darfor... then write about it. You have a LOT better chance selling something that people are interested in, and it doesn't have to be perfectly written, either.

Good luck

I really think you're purposefully mis-reading what I said. I didn't mean, or say, that you have to know a bunch of formulas; when I said exposure, I was talking about reading books, and developing a passion and drive, ideas, and yes, some knowledge of literature. Then using that and your life experience(on which you spent a considerable amount of the words in your post talking about) to try your hand at writing something. So maybe, before you open your big mouth Lin, you should think about how far out of context you are taking someone's post to make yourself look smart.