Am I the only one? - Page 2 - Writers Forum

Joe Moore · 08-04-2007, 07:27 AM

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Originally Posted by astralis

I also believe that most published writers/screenwriters have an idea about their ending before they're finished.
You're right, it does depend on the person's approach to writing. I believe those who are published and write while not knowing the ending have mastered the form of storytelling and subconsciously write while understanding it.

Before my publisher issues a contract on my next book (as they've done on the last 4 novels), they want a synopsis that tells them what the story is about including how it ends. They have come to trust me (and my co-writer) that we can produce a book in 12 months that has a beginning, middle and end that all makes sense by the last page. The reason they want to know how it ends is it's their MONEY they're risking. And I want to know how it ends so that when I write it, it doesn't turn out to be a giant confusing mess. If you don't know your destination or goal, how will you know how to get there, or for that matter if you ever get there at all?

Foxee · 08-04-2007, 09:13 AM

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Originally Posted by ClancyBoy

As long as you aren't sloppy and cut corners to get to that ending.

No kidding there. I've seen examples of this in some bestselling authors' work and it drives me crazy. It feels like disrespect for the reader when the end comes across as "Here's a huge buildup throughout the book but I'm out of ideas and the deadline is here so The End." Argh. Suddenly it's a lousy book.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Beverley

Do you really write without knowing how you're going to end it? Because if that works, then screw my theory, and good for you--but I honestly don't know how you can do that. It would frustrate me to hell not knowing what was going to happen in the rest of my story while I was writing it.

I understand that, I really do. To be fair, I have tried it both ways. I'm just saying that so far NOT knowing the ending is working better for me. If I know the ending I feel trapped. I wouldn't mind overcoming that. So far it hasn't been a problem because I've only been writing short fiction. My novels, which are sitting on the back burner waiting for me to get more experience and knowledge, are probably a horse of a different color. Joe Moore's comments pretty much seem to back that up...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Moore

Before my publisher issues a contract on my next book (as they've done on the last 4 novels), they want a synopsis that tells them what the story is about including how it ends...And I want to know how it ends so that when I write it, it doesn't turn out to be a giant confusing mess. If you don't know your destination or goal, how will you know how to get there, or for that matter if you ever get there at all?

I feel a bit squished by the weight of Joe's credibility here. It's very difficult to argue with four published novels and more on the way.

Especially when one of my favorite books so far Writing for the Soul (Jerry B. Jenkins...with over 150 novels to his name) also points out the need for a synopsis for the publisher. He makes it clear to the publisher that it may end differently than the synopsis, though, if I remember right, but the genre and general story are to remain the same (so that you're not selling something different than what you've promised).

Of course, it makes good business sense for a publisher to want the full scoop before they advance money for something that is as large an undertaking as a novel.

However, for me, for now it doesn't work well to know the end of the story. I have one WIP (short story) that I do have an ending for. I struggle with it more than with the other WIPs. Hopefully, I can get over the 'trapped' feeling and write whether I know the ending or not.

To me it's just another skill to master and one I don't particularly care for.

And, hopefully, I can continue to find out what works and what doesn't while I work on short stories. My novels are waiting.

Hobbes · 08-04-2007, 09:59 AM

I write short stories, and never plan the endings out ahead of time. I'm sure the pressure to begin with the end in mind is greater on novel writers, as it's a far bigger time investment.

Joe Moore · 08-04-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxee

I'm just saying that so far NOT knowing the ending is working better for me.

As I've mentioned in other threads, the first rule of writing fiction is that there are no rules. Whatever method works for an individual writer is the correct method for that writer.

Regarding knowing the ending before I start writing: there's a HUGE difference between KNOWING how a story ends and WRITING the ending. In our current WIP, I envisioned the ending a month before turning in the synopsis to our agent to pitch to our publisher. But I will not actually WRITE the ending until sometime around the end of December (manuscript deadline is Jan 16), approximately 60,000 words from now. Words that have not been written, but words that will all point to the ending in my head. So everybody should understand that knowing and doing are DIFFERENT in regards to the ending.

Example: George Lucas knew that Darth Vader was Luke's father when he shot the movie STAR WARS (1977). When did he write the scene that revealed the ending? Years later (1983). But he had a vision, a goal, a plan that helped him build suspense, mystery, character development, complex plotting points, and a million other bricks in the STAR WARS wall. He knew before he started. He did it later.

Know where you're going with your story. If you are fortunate enough to get it published and are offered a contract on a second book, I absolutely assure you that you will need to know how that one ends before you begin. Good luck.

astralis · 08-04-2007, 11:10 AM

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I've seen examples of this in some bestselling authors' work and it drives me crazy. It feels like disrespect for the reader when the end comes across as "Here's a huge buildup throughout the book but I'm out of ideas and the deadline is here so The End." Argh. Suddenly it's a lousy book.

Completely agree. Stephen King and Anne Rice come to mind. It seems like they diligently work through the first two-thirds of the book without knowing the ending and then when they get to the end they scramble to make sense of everything and it often looks sloppy. Regardless, I do love Anne Rice's writing but I can almost always predict the endings will be a huge mess. If I recall correctly, Anne Rice did say she knew her endings but from the way it reads, it doesn't seem like it, or the book took a different turn and she didn't modify the ending to reflect it.
Joe said:

Quote:

If you are fortunate enough to get it published and are offered a contract on a second book, I absolutely assure you that you will need to know how that one ends before you begin.

I think the backlash is from new writers who mistake the ancient storytelling form that includes a beginning, middle, end, inciting incident, characters who are on a quest that makes up the spine of the story, turning points, and a last act climax that reveals the deep meaning, for formula. When this happens, I think the stories lack deep meaning and the writer becomes frustrated that they can't tell a story like the ones they've heard, read, and watched all their lives.

Lost in Some Story · 08-04-2007, 01:22 PM

I've written both ways. Sometimes writing with an end is good for writing, sometimes it's lousy. It depends on the story.

PSFoster · 08-05-2007, 12:42 PM

Last year I wrote the beginning of what I wanted to be a novel. I thought I did a real good job on it, but had to abandon it because I couldn't think of how it would end. I didn't know where to go with it. Sadly, I threw it away, but I may try to resurrect what I had in case I do think of an ending to work toward. It wasn't suitable for a short story since it didn't have any kind of resolution.

In writing short stories, sometimes I know the end and sometimes not. The ideas come from out of the air, the beginning or the end.